Melbourne Chat

Well Peter, Shorten's role of dumping Kevin Rudd was because of 3 reasons

• The ALP wanted to win the next election.
  
• The polls were going down because of Tony Abbott's "mining-taxi-scare" campaign. (Is that illegal Mal?)
  
• Julia Gillard wanted to steal the job.
  

 

Shorten's role of dumping Julia Gillard was because of 3 reasons.

• The ALP wanted to win the next election.
  
• The polls were going down because of Tony Abbott's "witchy-scare" campaign. (Is that illegal too Mal?)
  
• Kevin Rudd wanted to steal the job back.
  

 

Shorten's role of dumping Tony Abbott was because of 3¹â„₂ reasons.

• The Libs wanted to win the next election
  
• Abbott was a hypocrite who self inflicted his own demise with a little help from his Peta
  
• The polls were down because Abbott's dysfunctionality was almost as high as his ego.
  
• Abbott couldn't read an Electricity Bill
  

 

None of this makes Shorten a hypocrite; backstabber yes, effective opposition leader, yes. Hypocrite? No.

 

Shorten has a habit of disappearing what is labeled as bad Prime Ministers.. Rudd, Gillard, Abbott and counting

 

A hypocrite is someone who criticizes behaviour, then demonstrates it.

 

Every criticism that was handed out by Tony Abbott in opposition was then repeated in Govt ad nauseum.

 

While Tony Abbott might have been the worst ever PM he was definitely the best ever hypocrite.

 

 

Yes Aloy, I am seriously advising that I would not back Abbott for a UN leadership bid.

 

Kevin Rudd at least had frequent and fair dialogue with other global leaders... think Kevin 747.

 

Abbott on the other hand wanted to shirtfront the Russians and piss off the Indonesians.

 

He was an international embarrassment.

 

Arguably, Turnbull may be a better communicater than the other two but blocking Rudd's bid is nothing more than petty and vindictive and it only happened because the Libs were split 50/50 on the issue.

 

It's a pisser really. Rudd had 50% Govt support for a UN bid yet Abbott only got about 30% for a PM role

 

 

That says it all I reckon. :dance:

Quote:Well PZ.

When Rudd was PM, did not Shorten think the Ruddsta was a shocker PM and had him disposed.

Now Shorten thinks the Ruddsta is qualified to run the UN! Doh!

Presently Mr. T Abbott is not applying to run the UN nor deciding who does, so I'm not sure why he is mentioned.

Doodleburgered! Is that a word? Means?

Sorry Peter, forgot about the Doodleburger bit.

 

It's an evil audio dub over of on screen characters (Mostly Ray Meagher). Kevin Rudd copped a beauty from the Doodleburger on YouTube but as this is a family program I wouldn't be linking it on Melb Chat

 

You get the idea though...

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">@Arguably, Turnbull may be a better communicater than the other two but blocking Rudd's bid is nothing more than petty and vindictive and it only happened because the Libs were split 50/50 on the issue.

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">It's a pisser really. Rudd had 50% Govt support for a UN bid yet Abbott only got about 30% for a PM role@

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">Yep you are joking - Rudd is not a fit or proper person to be supported as head of the UN.

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">I say so, the electorate says so, the ALP says so.

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">The government are merely accepting their advice - and good on them!

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;">https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/3222...job/#page1

<p style="color:rgb(40,40,40);font-family:helvetica, arial, sans-serif;"> 


"Rudd could never be trusted with top UN job"
 

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

I think most agree Aloy but put me down as a great admirer of Rudd.

I think his biggest mistake was not going for an ETS when he could have done so.

I know Rudd was attacked because he was a hard boss,,,well frankly all my bosses were demanding and tough.I think not nominating is cruel and I think he would be exceelent.

Years ago in Singapore I was with some Singapore business men all Chinese who were knocked out by Rudds accent free Mandarin.

He is a very impressive diplomat.

Well thats just my view.

@Aloy. From your link...
 
"Turnbull’s decision to deny Rudd the Australian Government’s support for his manic drive to become United Nations Secretary-General has seen him copping it from both sides of politics."
 
OK so you say "Rudd is not a fit or proper person to be supported as head of the UN."
 
You say so? That's fine with me.
 
The electorate says so? Err no. The electorate weren't polled.
Using an OZ election result from 3 years ago isn't the same thing.
 
The ALP says so? No. Read your link.
 
As for "Rudd could never be trusted with top UN job" That's not fact as you portray it.
It's an opinion from a conservative radio and TV broadcaster :ras:<span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:14px;"> </span></span>
 
 
 

Quote:Why is this so hard to comprehend?

 
I don't know mate. What part of that article are you not <span style="font-size:12px;"><span style="font-size:14px;">comprehending? </span></span>

Obtuse and argumentive PZ - almost Ruddlike in it's tenuous connection with reality.

 

 

Kevi Rudd:

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-16/ni...re/5027030


Nicola Roxon calls on 'bastard' Kevin Rudd to quit Parliament in John Button lecture
 

http://www.mamamia.com.au/is-this-why-ke...d-in-2010/

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);">“Rudd’s prime ministership failed, and the failure was above all his own. The story of his government, and of its end, has still not been fully told. The consequence has been deep damage to Australians’ faith in politics and in government.

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);">The truth is, Rudd was impossible to work with. He regularly treated his staff, public servants and backbenchers with rudeness and contempt. He could be vindictive, intervening to deny people appointments or preselections, sometimes based on grudges going back years.

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);">He made crushing demands on his staff, and when they laboured through the night to meet those demands, they received no thanks, and often the work was not used. People who dared to stand up to him were put in “the freezer” and not consulted or spoken to for months.

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);"> 

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);">http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php/arti...kevin-rudd

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);">Former Labor leader Mark Latham once said of Kevin Rudd that he was only liked by people who have never met him. Now the people who had met Rudd told the people who hadn’t what they thought. A political battle of savagery hitherto unknown to Australia erupted, redolent of the viciousness with which US presidential primaries are waged. Everyone from Rudd’s most senior cabinet colleagues to his speechwriters lined up to say how bad tempered, megalomanic and dysfunctional Rudd was as prime minister, of how his office had descended in chaos and paralysis. Senior minister Stephen Conroy said Rudd ‘had contempt for the cabinet, contempt for the cabinet members, contempt for the caucus.’ - See more at: http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php/arti...xNTfH.dpuf

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);"> 

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);">And on it goes!!

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);"> 

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);">Essentially - senior ALP Ministers accuse Kevin Rudd of being an autocrat of extreme arrogance with a self destroying ego that failed to understand that there were more than just him running a country - imagine him in a top UN position?

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);"> 

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);"> 

<p style="font-size:20px;font-family:'Source Sans Pro', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-style:italic;color:rgb(74,74,74);">Fix refugees? - Let me just get a couple of selfies first!!

Rolf! You give credence to people like Stephen Conroy and Mark Latham???

Hello? Do a background check on these fellas Aloy.

Conroy is one of the biggest crooks in the business.

Latham's election was so bad the he allowed the Howard Govt to unleash the Workchoices dog.
He should be castrated for that reason alone.

But you're still missing the point.

You say Labor aren't backing Rudd for a UN leadership bid. That's incorrect.

Anyways.... if he was really as bad as you say, why did Labor give him the PM job back again?

And why did half the Liberal Party (including Julie Bishop) back him for the UN role?

No problem with Roxon?

 

Can she be believed?

 

As you no doubt are aware the selection of articles I provided are merely a random selection of comment that represent a whole mountain of similar comment - and all from the ALP folks - not their "political" enemies.

 

 

PZ you are arguing the merits of Kevin Rudd - they do not include democracy in his style of leadership.

 

You ask why give him the job back? - why sack him in the first place?

 

The biggest joke of all is  Axeman Bills duplicitous support for Kevvie - the guy he axed at the behest of, and with the support of, the sick ALP backroom power brokers who hated Rudd from the getgo.

 

I objected to his initial removal as being undemocratic given his election by a significant number of voters -this regrettable event paved the way for more instability across the whole parliament and has not yet played out - it's become part of our political culture.

 

If you want a megalomaniac in charge of the UN that's your choice - a surprising choice indeed

I didn't say I want him in the job. I'm questioning Turnbull's logic that he isn't suitable given his past portfolios in foreign affairs.

There is no point in asking me if I want him in charge of the UN.

You need to ask yourself why Labor and half the Libs are backing him.

That simply wouldn't happen if he was as much of a megalomaniac as his haters make him out to be.

Mate - stop listening to the news media crap.

 

You don't want him in the job - I don't want him in the job - but the only folks with the authority - granted by the electorate - have agreed with us - so what's the problem?

 

Turnbull, in my opinion, graciously, refrained from specifying the reasons I have enunciated.

 

Frankly the diplomat here was Turnbull not Rudd.

 

Rudds credentials are most problematic given that he spent his time in the FA portfolio whiteanting (successfully) Julia Gillard. Fact, born out by history.

 

Note the almost immediate improvement in actual foreign affairs issues following his leaving - FTA agreements, relations with Indonesia, etc etc.

 

 

 

As for megalomania - even the hairdresser copped it!

 

It's real and continues to be real - just look at his refusal to accept his initial rejection and final rejection for support in his grand design - he is a total, ego driven, megalomaniac.

I didn't say I don't want him in the job

As for "stop listening to the news media crap", you're saying all those links you put up are something else?

Relations with Indonesia have deteriorated thanks to Abbott.

Relations with China have deteriorated thanks to Bishop.

Relations with the rest of the world have deteriorated under this Govt's last term.

FTA's were Howard Govt initiatives.

Turnbull, in my opinion has acted with prejudice.

... or fear

Quote:I didn't say I don't want him in the job

As for "stop listening to the news media crap", you're saying all those links you put up are something else?


Relations with Indonesia have deteriorated thanks to Abbott.


Relations with China have deteriorated thanks to Bishop.


Relations with the rest of the world have deteriorated under this Govt's last term.


FTA's were Howard Govt initiatives.


Turnbull, in my opinion has acted with prejudice.


... or fear

 

 

 

Ok that's your view - I disagree absolutely, but there you go, that's my view.

 

Ones perception of history is seen thru the lens of one's own biases.

 

Happily facts are facts.

 

The articles I presented were quotes from senior ALP figures, not media interpretation or comment. 

One thing Aloy. Turnbull was dumped by his party in the same year for much the same reason Rudd was


Just to make the point. I don't care whether Rudd gets the job or not.


Just as I didn't care about Hockey getting his overseas gig. Same goes for Brendon Nelson, Peter Costello.

 

So there's no bias here.


I just disagree with Turnbull's assertion that Rudd wasn't qualified, despite his extensive previous O/S portfolios.

 

And half of Turnbull's party disagree with him... again. Just like they did in 2010


So for me it's a dead giveaway as to Turnbull's ulterior motive > stab someone in the back because either he doesn't like him or he was on the other side of politics 3 years ago. Turnbull also appears to have changed his mind at some stage going off the letters.

 

Petty and vindictive and a bad look IMO.

 

 

Good point Peter. Maybe the Libs that did back Rudd might ask for a favour in return.

 

Maybe they could split away from the Govt and form a real Liberal Party with Rudd as leader. We could do with a viable 3rd party

##### ?

 

You mean a hash party ? LOL

Quote:One thing Aloy. Turnbull was dumped by his party in the same year for much the same reason Rudd was


Just to make the point. I don't care whether Rudd gets the job or not.


Just as I didn't care about Hockey getting his overseas gig. Same goes for Brendon Nelson, Peter Costello.

 

So there's no bias here.


I just disagree with Turnbull's assertion that Rudd wasn't qualified, despite his extensive previous O/S portfolios.

 

And half of Turnbull's party disagree with him... again. Just like they did in 2010


So for me it's a dead giveaway as to Turnbull's ulterior motive > stab someone in the back because either he doesn't like him or he was on the other side of politics 3 years ago. Turnbull also appears to have changed his mind at some stage going off the letters.

 

Petty and vindictive and a bad look IMO.

 

 

Good point Peter. Maybe the Libs that did back Rudd might ask for a favour in return.

 

Maybe they could split away from the Govt and form a real Liberal Party with Rudd as leader. We could do with a viable 3rd party

 

 

Why do you care what half the liberal caucus thinks?

 

Rudd is a total and utter disgrace.

 

What self respecting country ( or it's government) would want to inflict Rudd on the UN?

 

Vindictive - now there is a great word - it perfectly describes Rudds behaviour - when he was purportedly the FO Minister!!

 

Kev had no compunction about dragging an enfeebled party further into the mire.

 

He has no other principles than Kevin Rudds benefit.

 

You would have to hate the UN more than I do to wish him on them.

 

Stabbing someone in the front - in the view of all - is hardly stabbing them in the back!!!

 

Turnbull publicly declined to cater to Kevvies grandiose and self glorifying urges.

 

 

GOOD ON HIM!!!

Why do I care what half the liberal caucus thinks? Because clearly they disagree with you.

What we're seeing from Turnbull is a repeat of his ute gate mistake.

Prejudiced discrimination that cost him his leadership.

I've also noticed he didn't get the post-election honeymoon that most PM's get.

Already he's put the party behind in the polls.

Given that nothing else has happening it's quite possible that this issue is burning Turnbull's political capital.

You think that's a good thing?

Fine with me.

Well you can make this about Turnbull if you like - I don't really care - the point I make is that Rudd is and always has been, an inappropriate person for the work his ego craves.

 

His party , his ministers, his party power brokers,  the electorate, all formed that judgement.

 

That the present government shares that view has been made clear.

 

Australia doesn't owe Rudd anything - at all.

 

This whole issue is driven by Rudd and his megalomania.

 

It is no shame at all to withhold support for an australian who is unsuited to the post - his previous political career merely indicated his unsuitabilty - his party affiliation is of no interest at all and Shortens present s(support) for Rudd is mere political opportunism.

 

It's somewhat surprising to me that anyone cannot see his unsuitability, based on the record.

It's even more surprising to me that people can't see how Turnbull's behaviour in this case is anything but political.

 

Turnbull is being all ars
e and no class with this issue.

 

It's so easy for us to gloss over someone because of their personality but the job isn't about whether Turnbull likes Rudd or not.

 

It's about international diplomacy and a previous PM and Foreign Minister is about as close as you can get to qualify.

 

Clearly the UN are quite capable of determining those attributes.

 

If Rudd isn't suitable to them, fine. But for Turnbull to be blocking even the application for candidacy is just vindictive and point scoring.

 

Govt shouldn't even be allowed to interfere in such matters. It has no effect on the running of the country and that's what makes the whole thing so petty.

 

We didn't see that from Kevin Rudd when Brendon Nelson and Peter Costello were allowed to run for their post Govt jobs so that rather contradicts the megalomania claims.

I didn't know that word was filtered :o

 

You might be right about Nelson but Costello would never go down that path. lol

 

Costello must be spewin' that he left parliament when he did.

Quote:It's even more surprising to me that people can't see how Turnbull's behaviour in this case is anything but political.

 

Turnbull is being all ars
e and no class with this issue.

 

It's so easy for us to gloss over someone because of their personality but the job isn't about whether Turnbull likes Rudd or not.

 

It's about international diplomacy and a previous PM and Foreign Minister is about as close as you can get to qualify.

 

Clearly the UN are quite capable of determining those attributes.

 

If Rudd isn't suitable to them, fine. But for Turnbull to be blocking even the application for candidacy is just vindictive and point scoring.

 

Govt shouldn't even be allowed to interfere in such matters. It has no effect on the running of the country and that's what makes the whole thing so petty.

 

We didn't see that from Kevin Rudd when Brendon Nelson and Peter Costello were allowed to run for their post Govt jobs so that rather contradicts the megalomania claims.

 

 

 

Good grief man - you are asking for strong government and leadership in one breath then proposing that they have no authority to decide.

 

Well hello sailor - we are never going to agree if you can for one solitary moment imagine that Rudd the megalomaniacal persecutor of colleagues and hairdressers has more class than Turnbull, you either are easily misinformed or have a very strange set of values when it comes to "class"