Melbourne Chat

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business...fea031a609

 

Unemployment rate falls to 5.6pc in September

Proof that our IR system and its penalty rates are working!

No, not at all.

 

Are you happy to stick with 5.6% or improve?

 

Proof that something works is no reason whatever for believing that it couldn't work better.

 

There can be no standing still.

 

Why imagine that fossilisation  of any system can succeed.

 

That would include IR systems and Penalty rate systems. After all the IR system has been continually changed, as have penalty rates.

 

Stand in the way of change and you will be swept before it.

 

Life is change, Death is no change 

"IR system has been continually changed, as have penalty rates"

 

Exactly. Penalty rates were taken away, then put back in.

 

Penalty rates had no effect on unemployment. Nobody died. They succeeded.

 

Fossilisation was the workchoices policy that set us back a hundred years or more.

At the end of the day it's how much you are paid!!

 

Not how it's calculated.

 

Presumably CEO's etc are disinterested in penalty rates for themselves?

Quote:At the end of the day it's how much you are paid!!
 
Not how it's calculated.

Employees who work on a Sunday for Monday rates aren't getting paid enough.

That's why they need penalty rates.
 

Quote:Presumably CEO's etc are disinterested in penalty rates for themselves?

Without question. They are paid at a premium rate.

That's why they don't need penalty rates.
 
How many CEO's work every Saturday and Sunday for $25 a hour do we think?

Edit > LOL

Quote:Employees who work on a Sunday for Monday rates aren't getting paid enough.


That's why they need penalty rates.

 

Without question. They are paid at a premium rate.


That's why they don't need penalty rates.

 

How many CEO's work every Saturday and Sunday for $25 a hour do we think?


Edit > LOL

 

 

 

You just don't get it do you?

 

If an employer wants people to work on a Sunday - say and no one wants to do it for the money they offer - they don't get workers on Sunday.

 

If they offer you more then you may reconsider your rejection of their offer.

 

 I worked for years in a shift environment with 24/7 coverage.

 

That mean't I got paid the same rate regardless of nite, day, Saturday, Christmas day, etc.

 

But I was happy because I was paid a very significant salary, whether I was sick or well, on holiday or not.

 

If I had been asked to work on an award with penalty rates my take home pay woud have been some 30% lower.

 

Hello why would I want to do that?

 

Penalty rates are an obsolete system for paying more than the normal hourly rate to reflect onerous conditions - OK - but if you are paid way more than an award would give including penalty rates - why would you be interested? 

Quote:You just don't get it do you?

On the contrary, I reckon my sex life is better than yours :Sleepy:

I've been doing weekend work since the days of the Fraser Govt. Some with penalty rates, some without, some voluntary.

I reckon I know a fair bit about it mate
 

Quote:If an employer wants people to work on a Sunday - say and no one wants to do it for the money they offer - they don't get workers on Sunday.
 
If they offer you more then you may reconsider your rejection of their offer.

Yeah you might. The offer might include penalty rates

What happens when that worker is permanently rostered on Sundays? IR law changes, no penalty rates, massive pay cut, take it or leave it.

That's what happened last time.
 

Quote:I worked for years in a shift environment with 24/7 coverage.
 
That mean't I got paid the same rate regardless of nite, day, Saturday, Christmas day, etc.
 
But I was happy because I was paid a very significant salary, whether I was sick or well, on holiday or not.
 
If I had been asked to work on an award with penalty rates my take home pay woud have been some 30% lower.
 
Hello why would I want to do that?

That has nothing to do with anything. So you went from wage to salary. Who cares? Anyone could do that even today if their employer offers it.

What's this got to do with penalty rates in the IR system?

If anything you're actually agreeing with me when I say penalty rates aren't adding to unemployment.
 

Quote:Penalty rates are an obsolete system for paying more than the normal hourly rate to reflect onerous conditions - OK - but if you are paid way more than an award would give including penalty rates - why would you be interested?

What if you aren't paid more than an award including penalty rates? What if you lose out? Like all those workers that lost out under workchoices?

This is the bit you don't get mate. You seem to think that workers who lose penalty rates are somehow going to be better off. Nope. It didn't happen that way.

It's the above reason why the voters don't agree that penalty rates are obsolete. They are a compensation for working unsociable hours.

It's a crack up how right wing think tanks have a continual need to try and stuff up other peoples' quality of life by criticising their rights and benefits :ras:

Yo unfair mon ami!!

 

I wish you the remuneration you deserve - significant I hope!!

 

 

I just want you to get paid well - penalty rates or otherwise.

Sorry about that mate


It's not actually about me personally, my penalties are safe until I retire. I just have strong views on workplace rights particularly for young people and people who are renting. Most of our rights have been eroded away over the years by both sides of Govt.


The latest thing to go is redundancies for long serving workers. 12 weeks flat severance pay is the best you can get these days even if you've worked 30 years. Anything higher has to be purchased from your employer which comes off your next pay rise if you're lucky enough to even get one these days...


Penalty rates is about all we have left, but they are also the most sensitive issue, partly because we value our family time but for many it's also due to the exorbitant cost of living in this country.

 

Cheers...

Ouch!

 

Limited redundancy!!

 

My redundancy was 2.5 weks pay per year of service - 28.

 

I guess I wonder about the truth of the not enough pay issue when I see younger and younger people buying new houses twice the size of my own, new Cruiser in the garage and wall to wall electronic amusement machines.

 

Clearly there are more than one group of people to be looked at.

Yeppers. A new generation of dreamers contributing to Australia's unsustainable record household debt year after year.

 

Debt that wasn't available when I was buying. :Shakes head:

P.S... Melbourne Cup day today. So expect some controversial policies to slip under the radar :officechair:

Unemployment data ok

Something like this you reckon?

 



 

Didn't Joh trademark the great barrier roof in the 80's?  lol

I personally do not view our Victorian brothers unkindly, we have several "mexicans" supporting our local golf club for the winter months - I reckon they are smarter than those who stay behind!!

 

That said there are many of my fellow Queenslanders who view NSW as their own "Wall" against mexican  invasion.

 

Usually these folks are not the pick of the crop - I'm sure they are where ever you go!

 

 

PS I wouldn't call Joh a conservative - at all.

 

I'm a conservative - I therefore understand what one is.

 



<span>conservatism</span><span>noun [<span> <span>U </span>]</span></span>
 <span style="margin-left:5px;"><span style="color:rgb(232,68,39);font-size:1em;font-weight:bold;">UK <span style="font-family:cdoicons;font-size:.875em;color:inherit;">​</span> </span><span style="font-size:1.063em;">/<span>kənˈsɜː.və.tɪ.z<span style="font-size:11.2253px;">əm</span>/</span></span> </span><span style="margin-left:5px;"><span style="color:rgb(232,68,39);font-size:1em;font-weight:bold;">US <span style="font-family:cdoicons;font-size:.875em;color:inherit;">​</span> </span><span style="font-size:1.063em;">/<span>kənˈsɝː.və.tɪ.z<span style="font-size:11.2253px;">əm</span>/</span></span></span>
<div style="margin:0px;text-align:center;"> 
</div>

<div>
<div>
<div><a class="" title="Add this meaning to a wordlist">​</a>
<p class="">the <a class="" href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/quality" title="quality">quality</a> of not usually <a class="" href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/liking" title="liking">liking</a> or <a class="" href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/trusting" title="trusting">trusting</a> <a class="" href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/change" title="change">change</a>, <a class="" href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/especially" title="especially">especially</a> <a class="" href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/sudden" title="sudden">sudden</a> <a class="" href="http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/change" title="change">change</a>


</div>
</div>
</div>

Haha. I never said Joh was conservative :Loser:

 

But, since you want to run with that.... Joh Bjelke-Petersen - ( same website )


Sir Johannes "Joh" Bjelke-Petersen, KCMG (/ˈbiːɛlkiː ˈpiːtərsən/, 13 January 1911 – 23 April 2005) was an Australian politician. He was the longest-serving and longest-lived Premier of Queensland, holding office from 1968 to 1987, during which time the state enjoyed considerable economic development. His uncompromising conservatism (including his role in the downfall of the Whitlam federal government), his political longevity, and his leadership of a government that, in its later years, was revealed to be institutionally corrupt, made him one of the best-known and most controversial political figures of 20th century Australia.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joh_Bjelke-Petersen

Yeah Joh did a lot of good - he had high personal values - never accepted taxpayer funded Polly Super.

 

The corruption was largely in the highly unionised police in particular Terry Lewis.

 

Getting rid of Loose Cannon Whitlam was an act of national need.

Stopping the Coalition from winning the 1987 election was another act of national need.

 

So this wall... how high and how far and how deep?