Melbourne Chat

I'm not proposing a tax. That's your deliberate misinterpretation right there

 

Your second sentence is equally as misquoting.

 

There is a valid reason why electricity is more expensive now than it was under the Gillard Govt.

 

If you can convince me you're up for a serious intellectual articulate debate as to why that is then I'm happy to oblige in kind. Otherwise this whole thing is just another pointless post-off pi
ssing contest.

 

Here's a clue: Commoditising Co2 emissions is not the same thing as bringing in a new tax which is what you are falsely accusing me of proposing.

Wrong guess. Commoditising is trade... that is, buy, sell, profit.

 

Try again

What if that trade involves making a profit?

Quote:I'm not proposing a tax. That's your deliberate misinterpretation right there

 

Your second sentence is equally as misquoting.

 

There is a valid reason why electricity is more expensive now than it was under the Gillard Govt.

 

If you can convince me you're up for a serious intellectual articulate debate as to why that is then I'm happy to oblige in kind. Otherwise this whole thing is just another pointless post-off pi
ssing contest.

 

Here's a clue: Commoditising Co2 emissions is not the same thing as bringing in a new tax which is what you are falsely accusing me of proposing.

 

 

 

Heh - intellectual argument!!!

 

Wanna lead the way?

 

The above doesn't cut the mustard - at all.

 

Any move that includes buying carbon credits and the like cannot do anything but increase the cost of power, much less reduce it. Articulate that - bend in the middle that is.

Any scheme that involves buying selling and profiting means added cost - not of production , or of distribution - just higher cost for no return - a tax.

 

If intellectual argument means baffling folks with BS you are well along the road.

LOL!

 

Did you just say that profiting gives you no return and therefore a higher cost to the end user??????

 

Is that why this Coalition Govt is giving tax payer money to power stations? Money for nothing?

 

Same with R&D grants? So they can collect the money and charge you more for doing nothing?

 

Fark, no wonder you're baffled... investment isn't your strong point is it mate?  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

Quote:LOL!

 

Did you just say that profiting gives you no return and therefore a higher cost to the end user??????

 

Is that why this Coalition Govt is giving tax payer money to power stations? Money for nothing?

 

Same with R&D grants? So they can collect the money and charge you more for doing nothing?

 

Fark, no wonder you're baffled... investment isn't your strong point is it mate?  :laugh:  :laugh:  :laugh:

 

 

"Profits" that accrue to the Government rather than save the consumer are taxes.

 

The "profit" term was taken from your post - 

To me those "profits" from an ETS are quite manufactured and illusory.

 

To help you out:

 

If a cost to the consumer is not originated by either power production or distribution, it's a tax.

 

You may well call it something else, but in uncomplicated terms that is what is.

 

"Profits" that are not delivered to the consumer from some ephemeral government contrivance are a tax on the consumer.

 

Baffled? You seem determined to be baffled - your democratic right, I guess, but excuse me if I can see through the bafflement.

There is no bafflement... if you think objectively.
 
If you buy (or I prefer given free) carbon credits and sell unused credits to a third party for a profit then you have two choices.
 
You can either reinvest that profit to transition to renewables or lower your prices to the consumer.
 
It's not manufactured and illusory, it happens elsewhere.


 
Tax has nothing to do with it.

Quote:There is no bafflement... if you think objectively.

 

If you buy (or I prefer given free) carbon credits and sell unused credits to a third party for a profit then you have two choices.

 

You can either reinvest that profit to transition to renewables or lower your prices to the consumer.

 
It's not manufactured and illusory, it happens elsewhere.



 

Tax has nothing to do with it.

 

And returning to the consumer is in any way likely?

 

Illusions happen elsewhere too PZ!!

Quote:And returning to the consumer is in any way likely?

 

Illusions happen elsewhere too PZ!!

Market forces will determine the price Aloy.


And you will find out how if your ALP Govt brings down prices by disrupting the electricity market.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-15/de...st/8804888

 

Done your "tax" return yet? LOL

Tee Hee  :laugh:  :laugh: 

 

Under the Queensland ALP government power prices have jumped (Up)

 

I dare say the folks in Victoria might say similar not to mention those poor folks in SA.

 

I do not share your confidence in the ALP being able to manage anything related to money - they just do not have a record to encourage any faith in their being able to deliver anything.

They went up in NSW under the Liberals too mate... means nothing.

 

So you don't think this is going to work then?

 

What happens if it does?

 

Quote:I do not share your confidence in the ALP being able to manage anything related to money - they just do not have a record to encourage any faith in their being able to deliver anything.

Speak for yourself dood.

 

In NSW under Bob Carr they ran ten budget surpluses in a row.

 

That's after the previous Liberals ran six deficits in a row.


One for the list mate :dance:

Precisely Peter. They went up under every Govts.

 

But Aloy just likes to cherry pick Labor :rundog:

 

I'm more interested in whether this plan by the QLD Govt actually works and if it does could it be rolled out nationally.

Quote:They went up in NSW under the Liberals too mate... means nothing.

 

So you don't think this is going to work then?

 

What happens if it does?

 


Speak for yourself dood.

 

In NSW under Bob Carr they ran ten budget surpluses in a row.

 

That's after the previous Liberals ran six deficits in a row.


One for the list mate :dance:

 

 

 

Er - you made the claim that the ALP would bring down power prices - not me.

I merely voiced my doubts that that might be the case - based on the facts.

 

As for speaking for myself - that's the only thing I do - it's my right and I cherish it.

 

 

Bob Carr??

Quote:Precisely Peter. They went up under every Govts.

 

But Aloy just likes to cherry pick Labor :rundog:

 

I'm more interested in whether this plan by the QLD Govt actually works and if it does could it be rolled out nationally.

 

 

 

So rather than comment on the facts (Power going up) you feel the need to criticise the messenger.

 

Bill 101

Quote:Er - you made the claim that the ALP would bring down power prices - not me.

I merely voiced my doubts that that might be the case - based on the facts.

 

As for speaking for myself - that's the only thing I do - it's my right and I cherish it.

 

 

Bob Carr??

 

Er, the claim was made by the company in the article, not me.

 

A deal to bring power prices down by 25% and you claim it's all going to be BS.

 

I'm sure everyone involved will await with fervent anticipation of your superior analysis

 

Gee Whiz mate, you better vote Liberal so they can privatise the whole thing and disembowel your wallet with a serrated bread knife in the process

Quote:So rather than comment on the facts (Power going up) you feel the need to criticise the messenger.

 

Bill 101

 

Oh dear. Wanna cuddle ?

 

"Open minds are so hard to find!..."

 

Quote:Bob Carr??

Short memory??


Tony 101

You'll find out after next week if it's real or not

 

Just for the record, I'm invested in a SEQ company that offers double digit power discounts for high rise unit complexes using the process of consolidation and they've been doing it for 2 years or more.

 

It's not a miracle.

‘Peace activist’ Danny Lim wins appeal over $500 fine for wearing Tony Abbott poster

 

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/busines...1504063165

 

I do like this guy.. taking the peace

Even worse than that Peter...

 

I read an article some time ago where the Howard Govt wanted Christmas day and public holidays to be normal working days.

 

That's about as nutty as it gets

It was part of the Workchoices policy Peter.

 

No allowances for public holidays.

 

They were just another working day for shift workers.

 

That's why I don't vote Liberal anymore.