Melbourne Chat

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/upfr...14903.html

 

"We have something called clause 1021 in a bill that was passed in 2012 [under Obama's presidency] that allows this guy to hold any American indefinitely without charge or trial," says Naomi Wolf, the author and a former political adviser to Bill Clinton and Al Gore."

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm fancy that!!!!  And they are not even immigrants!!!!

Cheap misspelling ofnames is hardly an argument Mel!!

 

I could if I were sufficiently bothered point to several posts of yours where you in fact did dispute the result, happily I am not bothered.

 

As for what do I want to talk about - that's my affair and you will be advised in due course.

 

Wanna talk about kept promises?

Wanna talk about the OBama years that led to Trumps triumph?

Wanna talk about massive Obama spending proposals for nuclear armament while talking about disarmament?

 

 

It's all a bit too hard really isn't it?

 

Wanna talk about the luke warm reception by bludger euro states about Nato - when the US has funded their defense since the second world war - it's all part of that pathetic entitlement culture so espoused by leftist pollies.

 

One day reality eventually will catch up with them.

 

Regrettably that is almost always the precursor to massive civil unrest and international aggression.

 

Ignore history and take the consequences.

I guess if you believe I am not up to backing my assertions - then I'm in good company!!!

 

Pinning a jellyfish to the wall is easier than netting the schools of red herrings one must contend with.

 

Happily I have a pretty fair memory and am therefore more than able to back up my assertions while at the same time debunking those that originate in a left leaning commentariat.

 

All that aside, one wishes you a very happy and peaceful day...

Google Elijah Cummings IRS cover up.

 

This is symptomatic of the issues that led people to vote out elitist minority people in government.

 

Americans are no more stupid than Australians they chose to vote out an anti democratic power structure.

Cutting Sunday penalty rates would threaten Coalition in marginal seats: poll


The Turnbull government would likely feel an electoral backlash in marginal seats if Sunday penalty rates are cut, polling suggests.


The long overdue decision of the Fair Work Commission on streamlining weekend pay rates is expected imminently, setting up another political brawl.


While about 60 Coalition MPs have publicly supported lowering Sunday rates and Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has described them as a quirk of history, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten recently shifted position from saying Labor would accept the umpire's position to proposing new rules that would ensure no worker would suffer an overall drop in pay.


Polling conducted by ReachTel for hospitality industry union United Voice in five Liberal and National Party-held marginal seats in NSW showed cutting the double time Sunday rate remains unpopular with a majority of the electorate, with twice as many people opposing any change than those who would back one.

In a warning to the Coalition in seats it must win to retain government, nearly half of those polled - 48 per cent - said they would be more likely to vote for a political party that promised to restore Sunday rates if they were lowered as a result of the Fair Work decision.


In the electorates of Reid, Robertson, Banks, Page and Gilmore - all narrowly-held by the Coalition - more people said the issue could change their vote than the 30 per cent who said it would not alter their voting intention.


The poll also places a question mark over the restaurant industry's claim that steep pay rates on Sunday meant some businesses remained shut, reducing the choice for consumers.


About eight in 10 people in the city electorates agreed that finding a restaurant open on a Sunday was "easy" while about six in 10 had that view in the regional seats of Gilmore and Page.


After a number of pay-related scandals at companies like 7 Eleven, a significant majority - 70 per cent - of those polled said underpayment of workers and cash-in-hand payments so a company can avoid tax are bigger problems than Sunday penalty rates for hospitality workers sending businesses broke.


Last month, Mr Shorten said Labor would not accept a cut to weekend rates and would put new rules into the Fair Work Act to ensure workers did not lose out on pay overall even if the Sunday loading was reduced.


The Australian Industry Group has been advocating a cut in rates, saying it would allow more young people to work on weekends but unions have threatened a "fierce" grassroots and social media campaign against any move to cut penalty rates.


Tara Moriarty, secretary of United Voice's liquor and hospitality division, said the polling showed how "deeply ingrained" support for Sunday penalty rates is in Australia.


"Cutting Sunday penalty rates amounts to the greatest wage cut for Australian workers since the Depression. Sunday penalty rates are not extra, discretionary income. Tens of thousands of hospitality workers rely on Sunday penalties to make ends meet," she said.


"Any political party that supports slashing Sunday penalties will pay for it at the ballot box. Support for Sunday penalty rates is deeply ingrained among the Australian public.


"This polling demolishes the only argument business lobbyists have advanced for cutting penalty rates. There is no shortage of places to go for a meal on a Sunday."


The office of Employment Minister Michaelia Cash said the government would not decide the timing of an announcement on penalty rates.


Fair Work, which is reviewing a number of specific retail and hospitality awards, has been looking at Sunday rates since 2015.


http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/p...ugz2w.html

 



 

Wasn't sure whether it was a subscription requirement to read the article hence my full quoting of it.

 

Forget about Pauline Hanson. That racist party is dropping its core values very quickly by morphing into a right wing extension of the Liberal Party and a timely reminder of why the Libs lost the 2007 election in the first place. They are becoming the very ba
stards they pledged to keep honest, just like Cory Bernasty and other breakaways.

 

One Nation mark 2, like all forms of mind master
bation has a limited shelf life and will lose its fun just like last time.

 

But I'm talking about the gross underestimation by the right of the value the electorate has in penalty rates.

 

When it comes to putting food on the table people don't really care how yellow your how to vote card is.

Quote:Cutting Sunday penalty rates would threaten Coalition in marginal seats: poll


The Turnbull government would likely feel an electoral backlash in marginal seats if Sunday penalty rates are cut, polling suggests.


The long overdue decision of the Fair Work Commission on streamlining weekend pay rates is expected imminently, setting up another political brawl.


While about 60 Coalition MPs have publicly supported lowering Sunday rates and Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has described them as a quirk of history, Opposition Leader Bill Shorten recently shifted position from saying Labor would accept the umpire's position to proposing new rules that would ensure no worker would suffer an overall drop in pay.


Polling conducted by ReachTel for hospitality industry union United Voice in five Liberal and National Party-held marginal seats in NSW showed cutting the double time Sunday rate remains unpopular with a majority of the electorate, with twice as many people opposing any change than those who would back one.

In a warning to the Coalition in seats it must win to retain government, nearly half of those polled - 48 per cent - said they would be more likely to vote for a political party that promised to restore Sunday rates if they were lowered as a result of the Fair Work decision.


In the electorates of Reid, Robertson, Banks, Page and Gilmore - all narrowly-held by the Coalition - more people said the issue could change their vote than the 30 per cent who said it would not alter their voting intention.


The poll also places a question mark over the restaurant industry's claim that steep pay rates on Sunday meant some businesses remained shut, reducing the choice for consumers.


About eight in 10 people in the city electorates agreed that finding a restaurant open on a Sunday was "easy" while about six in 10 had that view in the regional seats of Gilmore and Page.


After a number of pay-related scandals at companies like 7 Eleven, a significant majority - 70 per cent - of those polled said underpayment of workers and cash-in-hand payments so a company can avoid tax are bigger problems than Sunday penalty rates for hospitality workers sending businesses broke.


Last month, Mr Shorten said Labor would not accept a cut to weekend rates and would put new rules into the Fair Work Act to ensure workers did not lose out on pay overall even if the Sunday loading was reduced.


The Australian Industry Group has been advocating a cut in rates, saying it would allow more young people to work on weekends but unions have threatened a "fierce" grassroots and social media campaign against any move to cut penalty rates.


Tara Moriarty, secretary of United Voice's liquor and hospitality division, said the polling showed how "deeply ingrained" support for Sunday penalty rates is in Australia.


"Cutting Sunday penalty rates amounts to the greatest wage cut for Australian workers since the Depression. Sunday penalty rates are not extra, discretionary income. Tens of thousands of hospitality workers rely on Sunday penalties to make ends meet," she said.


"Any political party that supports slashing Sunday penalties will pay for it at the ballot box. Support for Sunday penalty rates is deeply ingrained among the Australian public.


"This polling demolishes the only argument business lobbyists have advanced for cutting penalty rates. There is no shortage of places to go for a meal on a Sunday."


The office of Employment Minister Michaelia Cash said the government would not decide the timing of an announcement on penalty rates.


Fair Work, which is reviewing a number of specific retail and hospitality awards, has been looking at Sunday rates since 2015.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/p...ugz2w.html

 



 

 

 

 

So this is a decision to be made by Fairwork Australia??

 

And people will blame Turnbull for their (autonomous) decision?

 

 

Oh!

 

Is this article really an attempt to influence Fairwork's decision?

 

Sure looks like it to me.

 

For the record Penalty rates do not put food on the table - money does.

I think you'll find Fairwork have already made their decision Aloy. Just not announced yet.

 

Might have something to do with the WA election

 

Penalty rates IS money. So it does put food on the table. Ask anyone who works on weekends for them. If they are reduced then it's Tony Abbott's fault for using the productivity commission to influence Fairwork to cutting them in the first place.

Quote:I think you'll find Fairwork have already made their decision Aloy. Just not announced yet.

 

Might have something to do with the WA election

 

Penalty rates IS money. So it does put food on the table. Ask anyone who works on weekends for them. If they are reduced then it's Tony Abbott's fault for using the productivity commission to influence Fairwork to cutting them in the first place.

 

 

Penalty rates are not money!

 

Penalty rates may lead to more money but so do things like increased base rates.

 

I would like to see you pay for anything with a penalty rate!

 

If the decision was made by the Fairwork folks themn it was a good decision after all they are an autonomous body - not voted for and installed by the dear old ALP government.

 

Gotta be good - right? :Hug:

Quote: 

 

Penalty rates are not money!

 

Penalty rates may lead to more money but so do things like increased base rates.

 

I would like to see you pay for anything with a penalty rate!

 

If the decision was made by the Fairwork folks themn it was a good decision after all they are an autonomous body - not voted for and installed by the dear old ALP government.

 

Gotta be good - right? :Hug:

 

Nope. Can't be good when the Govt tries to influence an autonomous body and that's exactly what's been happening.

 

Why else would Tony Abbott spend taxpayers money to use the productivity commission to go after penalty rates?

 

Penalty rates are not money? So what happens when workers lose penalty rates? They lose money!

 

What makes you think the employer would then blow their unfair advantage by giving workers a higher base rate?

Quote: 

Nope. Can't be good when the Govt tries to influence an autonomous body and that's exactly what's been happening.

 

Why else would Tony Abbott spend taxpayers money to use the productivity commission to go after penalty rates?

 

Penalty rates are not money? So what happens when workers lose penalty rates? They lose money!

 

What makes you think the employer would then blow their unfair advantage by giving workers a higher base rate?

 

 

To keep good employees/value creators

Australian football is eating itself from within
http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/02/22/aus...ng-within/

 

Couple of points:

 

Arrogance- Australian football??  I don't think so.

 

You might think "World Game" supporters might behave a little up market compared to their (Lesser) code supporters.

 

It's a squalid reminder of the quality of many soccer supporters - and I'm a soccer supporter.

Quote: 

 

To keep good employees/value creators

 

That's not what employers want.

 

They want lower wages and higher profits.

 

Remember we're talking about the retail and hospitality industry here.

 

Oh... and soccer fans

Your experiences and mine clearly differ - and I respect both.

 

I am also feeling pretty lucky that I have seen what to me are ways that can be followed which are not adversarial.

I respect both as well. And I've been there. I spent most of the 90's working on weekends without penalty rates.

 

Prior to that I was either a salary earner or running a business - sometimes both, but always working on weekends.

 

When I look back on it now I wish I hadn't done it. Throwing away a decent quality social life in your younger years just for the sake of a career is a pretty heavy price to pay because of all the unintended consequences. Penalty rates at least went some way to justifying it in later years.

 

But this is even worse than that. If penalty rates are cut now retail employees are faced with the real prospect of taking home less pay than they did previously despite being among the lowest paid workers in the country. It'll send many to the wall and that's the truth... particularly with those who are renting.

 

Anyway the decision will be handed down today. It doesn't affect me at all because I don't work in that industry and I'll be retiring prior to the next EBA's at both jobs. I'm just putting my hand up to support other low income workers.

 

Whichever way it goes the loser will be this Govt for instigating this whole deal. If penalty rates are cut it'll cost them votes. If they stay it'll cost them support from the business community. It'll be hard to see how they've handled this well and it will potentially cost them the next election.

 

If they learn anything today it'll be this: IR laws need to be in line with community expectations, not ideologically driven.

 

Legalised wage theft does not meet with community expectations and they've held that view for 10 years or more.

"Can't Shorten for ONCE take responsibility for a commission he set up. An Independent Commission he wanted. To have his Union mates now sending Emails telling straight out lies about the outcome, is out right disgaceful, but not surprising. Shame Labor. People hate being lied to again via a scare campaign. "

 

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national...e090835981

 

 

Hello? all the runoff at the mouth ALP pollies decrying this decision are actually shooting themselves in the foot.

 

I well recall the rapturous greeting by Oh so many the removal of "Evil" Work Choices and it's replacement by Fairwork, this seen as the progressive and enlightend way to industrial justice.

 

This bold new step forward is now derided for making an unpopular decision and anyway it's all Turnbulls fault.

 

Right - any resemblence to the truth is purely accidental.

 

Working folks know where this decision came from, who set it up and staffed it, the party for workers that's who.

 

Excuse my mirth, but it's a bit rich to now imagine that folks are going to blame the one person who has nothing to do with it.

 

Credibilty is a precious thing and false claims and blames damage credilibilty - what little there remains of that in a once proud and respected ALP.

 

PZ: IR laws may have to take into account community expectations, but the fundamental driver will always be economic viability.

Pointless analogy.

 

Australia has been economically viable for 27 years straight. Another reason this decision is bulldust.

 

You watch what happens Aloy. I give it 6 months and employers will be whinging about penalty rates again.

 

This whole thing is just another step by THIS GOVERNMENT to reintroduce Workchoices.

 

Just remember one thing. Bill Shorten has NEVER advocated the cutting of penalty rates by Fairwork.

 

Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull have. This is their responsibility. Not Labor's.

 

Bring on the election.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-02-23/la...ut/8296716

Oh yeah... the WA election is coming up

 

"F--k you, Liberal Government. Pour your own drink."

 

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/fk-you...ujsjn.html

Quote:But this is even worse than that. If penalty rates are cut now retail employees are faced with the real prospect of taking home less pay than they did previously despite being among the lowest paid workers in the country. It'll send many to the wall and that's the truth... particularly with those who are renting.

This is gonna trickle down. People with less pay are going to spend less, and it'd hit profits like supermarkets...  Less pay on Sundays will also mean less spending on Sundays when those people aren't working.

 

Already Coke sales are down - and people say it's because of health risks? Nup... The families are budgeting, and it hit the other industries soon (What's next? M&Ms?).

 

Time will tell how the whole economy adjust itself with people spending less and less. Hopefully we wouldn't end up like Japan.. Decades of Stagflation. 

 

Can't blame any parties for this to be honest. At least I don't think so, but this is gonna make Turnbull look bad regardless.

I can blame Tony Abbott very easily. That Govt sent a submission to the productivity commission about Sunday rates knowing full well the productivity commission is right of centre when it comes to IR laws. Same commission tried to increase the pension age to 70 and have frequently criticised the minimum wage. So it's no surprise that their recommendation to fairwork was to cut Sunday rates and that's what has happened today.

 

But you are correct about lower spending. Wages have effectively become frozen over recent years and because of the extra cost of living people are spending less and the economy is paying dearly for it.

 

Even the reserve bank have acknowledged this. Wage growth is too low.

 

This decision to actually CUT wages is a disaster and the flow on effects will be exactly as you described.