Well Done Conservatives

[Aloysius]

Guys please take care equating nice with helpful,

 

The over-riding problem I have with Green politics - said to be pro worker by some - is that they are anti development and thereby anti employment.

 

Nice policies but the results suck!

[POWERZONE]

"Results" is a bit strong for a party that's never governed

 

How about... "projections"? lol

[petersj]

Mmmm thats a  good point Aloy but in my opinion I think the Greens do have policies for employment and conservation friendly. Too long to g into here but I will elaborate. I can say that the logging industry for example actually employs very few compared to eco toursism.

Mind you its a tough call and I am aware of certain hypocrisies even I battle with. 

Thats why I think its a mistake we all make of being one eyed.

I often question my fellow greens on population limits.

Trouble is when discussing population the race card is often played unfairly.

[POWERZONE]

I'm sure there's plenty of employment to be had in windfarms, solar farms, geo-thermal, and tidal energy in this vast great land.

 

Just has a need to divert some of that money away from the coal and oil burners

[petersj]

Absolutely indeed apparently more.

Its a matter of getting over the nonsense. Lived for a while very near a wind farm ...absolutely not a problem.

[Aloysius]

I'm sure there's plenty of employment to be had in windfarms, solar farms, geo-thermal, and tidal energy in this vast great land.

 

Just has a need to divert some of that money away from the coal and oil burners

 

 

I think the market place should determine these issues.

 

At present the logical step in Aus is to embrace nuclear energy production.

 

Diverting resources arbitarily is emotional stuff - the market is (generally) unemotional and amoral - the facts speak through the collective response of those in the market place.

[POWERZONE]

The market place would render nuclear power unaffordable here in the current climate.

 

As you know, I'm not a "fan" of it anyway :p

[Aloysius]

Just like solar or wind for base load power, but that doesn't stop folks from urging their further subsidisation.

[POWERZONE]

Can you think of any form of electricity generation that isn't already subsidised?

[Aloysius]

Yes

[petersj]

Fascinating posts folks.

I started by saying well done conservatives and so far I have been impressed with Turnbull.

The recent shooting by a young Muslim radical extremist was frightening and disgusting.

However I was impressed with Turnbull's call for caution and not to hastily condemn a whole race already marginalised in our community.

I am not so convinced his predator would show this kind of leadership.

WE are on the threshold of great civil unrest unless we b curb the growing racism here.

So well done conservatives.

Its funny we don't blame the Christian faith for Baptist nutters, the IRA and the Ku Klux Klan and gun loving religious nut cases yet there are people in our community who think all Muslims are exremists.

We must unite with our Muslim community.

Like many of yo I have Muslim friends. WE cannot leave he next generation a divided country,

 

.

[petersj]

If Turnbull works too hard at appeasing the right in his party complete with their anti climate change rhetoric which lets face is now looking sillier and sillier, their anti marriage equality arguments and general thumping of the poor of our society they will come down with a a thud.

Lets have a real NBN.

If he is able to carry out the above reforms and stop the absurd intellectually insulting three word phrases (ALP should not be too smug I recall a few from them over theirs like moving forward ...oh dear).

Some how or other Turnbull must not upset the old guard of the Nationals too much but its going to be tough.

[Aloysius]

Nobody argues that climate doesn't change - clearly it does - it always has.

 

Conservatives are no different to any other rational person, they know that climate changes and always has.

 

What exactly are you claiming here?

 

 

Who thumps the poor? How do they do it?

 

What is a real NBN and who will pay for it?

 

Nationals, old guarders have just as many rights as liberals and left wing ALP folks - who says they don't?

 

 

Please do not see this as an attack - see it as an appeal for clarity and basis for your claims.

 

 

 

I believe that socially Mr Turnbull is very liberal, economically he is far more conservative than Abbott. This is not a simple question of Turnbull being more "reasonable" than Abbott. 

[petersj]

I dont understand the post above but Aloy I will answer your questions but you have given me quite a job.

I believe carbon pricing is the very best way of tackling climate change. I will elaborate.

When the Gillard Gov introduced a carbon price (mostly under our party the Greens influence) it was the protest day of my life.

For once Australia was almost leading the world although I admit a few others came in before.

Today over 95% of climate scientists see a strong association with climate change and human influence. Yes I know this is high but I stand by it. 

I better declare I am NOT an expert however I have read plenty, attended conferences and all I can say is that the scientists in my opinion put up much more intellectually impressive arguments than the alternative..

I won't give along lecture Aloy because you are a smart guy and theres plenty to read.

 

Human activities contribute to climate change by causing changes in Earth’s atmosphere in the amounts of greenhouse gas- es, aerosols (small particles), and cloudiness. The largest known contribution comes from the burning of fossil fuels, which releases carbon dioxide gas to the atmosphere. Greenhouse gases and aero- sols affect climate by altering incoming solar radiation and out- going infrared (thermal) radiation that are part of Earth’s energy balance. Changing the atmospheric abundance or properties of these gases and particles can lead to a warming or cooling of the climate system. Since the start of the industrial era (about 1750), the overall effect of human activities on climate has been a warm- ing influence. The human impact on climate during this era greatly exceeds that due to known changes in natural processes, such as solar changes and volcanic eruptions. 

[Aloysius]

OK here you go:

 

Mars apparently once had water, it's now gone due to climate change - as far as we presently know there were no humans or factories burning fossil fuels.

 



 

 

 

[POWERZONE]

 

 

Clearly that statement is incorrect.

 

There was global warming in 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2010, 2013.

 

That's what the chart says

[Aloysius]

Ok you little pedant you, lets then pronounce global cooling in the other years!

 

Anyone ever heard of global cooling???

 

PS it cooled in 1998 & 2010 according to the graph!

 

You just have to watch those interpretations eh?

[POWERZONE]

Global cooling isn't the issue, global warming is.

That graph is over simplifying the problem by going for averages which is irrelevant.

Yesterday I worked in a freezer. Should I now stand in front of a blowtorch to average out my environment?

[petersj]

Aloy its interesting and as I said I am no expert but personally I find the climate issue disturbing. Yes of course people are entitled to not accept since but all I am saying is I cannot accept the stuff Bolt and others put forward as quite silly.

I went to a lecture if you can call it that by Lord Moncton (?) and his speech was  stupid....sorry. 

[Aloysius]

Global cooling isn't the issue, global warming is.


That graph is over simplifying the problem by going for averages which is irrelevant.


Yesterday I worked in a freezer. Should I now stand in front of a blowtorch to average out my environment?

 

 

According to you!

 

Fixation with one side of a hugely complex issue is to avoid the opportunity for understanding more widely.

 

 

Geology 101 will explain more about climate change than all the BS lemming type articles presented to us as "the science"

 

 

The graph you criticise does not pretend to present anything other than the last 18 years or so of data available - but never mind the ups and downs, what trend for the averages do you see across that period.?

 

 

Hint: the trend line is FLAT.

 

A rising trend line would indicate warming - we do not see that.

 

A red herring is a red herring.