Well Done Conservatives

[POWERZONE]

Unwanted school halls and live roofs were Gillard and Rudd policies respectively, not Swan's

Just as paid parental leave was Abbott's policy, not Hockey's

I'm more talking about raising the pension age to 70 and charging people to see the doctor.

I'll remember Hockey for those dumb things if nothing else.

That first budget finished the Abbott Govt there and then.

They lost every poll since then, as well as 3 state elections.

I reckon Hockey was far worse than Swan, although probably not the worst ever.

That gong goes to one or two treasurers In the Keating Govt IMO.

[petersj]

I think Keating himself was a great treasurer and so was Peter Costello.

 

Of course they were flawed because when it comes to economics it is impossible to please every one.

You do not run an economy like a business. That is the mistake Hockey made and will certainly get the award as the worse in our life times.

[Steve Raider]

Malcolm, you're a breath of fresh air and I want to like you but if Labor promises to restore FTTP they have my vote.

[Aloysius]

So just to get it straight: Swan gave us 6 budgets all first class - he is a hero never mind the debt.

 

Hockey gives one bad budget (your opinion) and he is a villain.

 

Sorry PZ it just doesn't scan - at all!!!

[POWERZONE]

I didn't say Sawn was a hero or gave us first class budgets... just that he was better than Hockey.

 

It's weird how people can read that and then blow things out of proportion in their responses


Look at Peter's last comment...  I won't even dignify that with a reply

[petersj]

Pity nothing has changed in some ways here but in other ways its more polite. Good.

May I suggest discussing the issues and not just politicians and one another personalities.

[Aloysius]

Pity nothing has changed in some ways here but in other ways its more polite. Good.

May I suggest discussing the issues and not just politicians and one another personalities.

 

 

And may I suggest that if you want to contribute to a topic thread named "well done conservatives" you automatically ignore your own suggestion?

 

I understand your gentle nature - but clearly the other contributors do not share it. :notworthy:

 

IMO if it's kept polite the subject matter is of little consequence.

 

There are many posters with whom I have disagreed - but they have my respect - why would one then shrink from discussing differences?

 

 

Discussing points of agreement is all very nice but it hardly increases ones knowledge base! :dance:  

[petersj]

Sorry to say but you people can suggest what you like?

I will discuss/mention whatever I feel like, suggestions mean nothing to me.

 

 

oh yes we are well aware of that. I was simply trying to be polite..  Does not matter much any way as I rarely come here.

[JSmith]

Not sure of this topic title... how can "well done" and "conservatives" be in the same title? :blink:

 

JSmith 

[JSmith]

The strange thing about the "left" is that they are forever deigning to instruct us plebs that their version of right is right.

 

Right is right and that is it... one is either correct or incorrect.

 

JSmith 

[petersj]

I think you might be correct JSmith. I see politics as quite fickle.

What I dislike s the view that Greens and left are always BAD,

Any way I have had my say and thanks.

[Aloysius]

I think you might be correct JSmith. I see politics as quite fickle.

What I dislike s the view that Greens and left are always BAD,

Any way I have had my say and thanks.

 

 

Truth is GM there are some who opine that the conservatives are always bad, some that opine that the ALP is always bad etc.

 

Clearly nothing is all bad - or all good - just a mixture of both - it's called being human and therefore imperfect.

 

 

From my perspective I see that the present day ALP is not even a pale imitation of it's past.

 

Support for the worker has gone - replaced by support for the Union Bosses.

 

This is all upside down - the Union Bosses are supposed to be the servant of the membership - but that clearly has evaporated !!

 

Look no further than the decline in membership - folks are voting with their feet!

 

That said - I appreciate your open and honest comments!

[JSmith]

Look no further than the decline in membership

 

Membership numbers of political parties has been declining for some time, even in the dear old LNP ranks...

 



 

JSmith 

[POWERZONE]

ALP support for the worker? Well its recent past was to slip to the right with neo liberality under the Hawke/Keating Govts which probably explains the decline in union membership which started in 1992.

Recently however, union membership has steadied and/or climbed according to the stats over the last decade.

You have to ask yourself where is the support for the worker? If any?

Certainly not from employers; you only have to look at the 7/11 debacle as one example of exploitation.

Certainly not from conservative Govt; look at workchoices and its various offshoot attempts including attacking penalty rates.

Happily, the current ALP has thwarted attempts by conservative Govts to disadvantage workers which resulted in community support followed by an unpopular conservative Govt knifing its leader so I can't agree with the suggestion that ALP support for the worker has gone. Not yet anyway.

[Aloysius]

ALP support for the worker? Well its recent past was to slip to the right with neo liberality under the Hawke/Keating Govts which probably explains the decline in union membership which started in 1992.


Recently however, union membership has steadied and/or climbed according to the stats over the last decade.


You have to ask yourself where is the support for the worker? If any?


Certainly not from employers; you only have to look at the 7/11 debacle as one example of exploitation.


Certainly not from conservative Govt; look at workchoices and its various offshoot attempts including attacking penalty rates.


Happily, the current ALP has thwarted attempts by conservative Govts to disadvantage workers which resulted in community support followed by an unpopular conservative Govt knifing its leader so I can't agree with the suggestion that ALP support for the worker has gone. Not yet anyway.

 

 

Fancy citiing 7/11 as an example - I could equally cite major employers who have their workers confidence.

 

Under  work choices unemployment rate was very very low - a good thing to my mind.

 

Class warfare pronouncements about conservative politics  bear no relation to actuality - under Howard economic growth, employment growth - where is anti worker in that?

 

Lets stay with the data and avoid the outmoded emotion.

 

Look no further than the ALP/CFMEU racist scare campaigns against a Free Trade agreement with the prime world economic growth leader - Hello?

[POWERZONE]

I could equally cite unions who have their workers confidence. You were right to say the ALP and Conservatives aren't all bad or all good, why not extend that to unions?

Of course not all employers are bad, but they are supposed to be regulated. Just like unions. Yet I've been aware of many other cases that are akin to the 7/11 case for many years, but while it's hard to monitor on an official level I reckon it's far more widespread than reported. I hope it gets investigated properly. Let's have a royal commission

Outmoded emotion says a lot about our obsession with union behaviour at the exclusion of everyone else.

Workchoices was anti worker because it took money off workers, that's an actuality.

Taking money off workers to reduce unemployment doesn't help workers, it helps non workers

Helping non workers is fine, as long as it doesn't punish workers in the process.

I'd rather see higher levels of employment achieved through tax incentives, such as cutting payroll tax or mind rooting BAS statements, not by cutting workers rights or shift allowances.

I'm yet to see how a Free Trade agreement with a communist nation is a good thing for workers? It reminds me of a failed Gillard policy of swapping 800 non processed asylum seekers with 4000 processed asylum seekers.

The ALP are right to question elements of it. For the record, it was only introduced to parliament a fortnight ago. So it's not as if the ALP have been constantly blocking it - that's just emotive language from the Govt. Let's see how good their negotiation skills are under the new leadership.



Howdy

[Aloysius]

Heh Sure, I am on the record as being respectful of good union leaders - I had the privilege of working with them for several years.

 

That doesn't in anyway excuse the blatant standover tactics employed by other Unions and their leaders.

 

Union leaders are not subject to the regulation that company directors are and that is unarguable.

 

I think they should be.

 

I support removal of employment taxes.

 

Ever heard the ALP have that as a policy?

 

You know very well that the CFMEU is fighting against the FTA with China - that is unarguable too.

 

Unfortunately they seem to have a considerable power in the ALP - does anyone think that those folks who will find employment as many did in NZ when a FTA was signed with China deserve employment?

[petersj]

How wonderful to read your posts Aloy and motor.

What lovely posters you are! Thank you.

I like it when people argue without venom.

I love intelligent argument rather than ...well I said enough.

Of course you could vote for my party? Its not easy being green and even I don't agree with everything in my party (far from it) but on most things I do.

I must say at our meetings they let me have my say and they politely disagree or agree.

[Aloysius]

 

Membership numbers of political parties has been declining for some time, even in the dear old LNP ranks...

 



 

JSmith 

 

Some relevant data:

 

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-02/be...em/4449896

 

 

<p style="font-size:1.25em;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(249,249,249);">It is a supreme irony of Australian politics in the last decade that the Australian Labor Party, the original mass-party which peaked at 400,000 members in the 1940s, has struggled more than most with declining membership.

<p style="font-size:1.25em;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(249,249,249);">Following Gillard's call, the ALP reputedly grew to 44,000 in 2012. It is stellar growth in percentage terms, but still leaves the ALP small by national, international and historical comparison.

<p style="font-size:1.25em;color:rgb(17,17,17);font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(249,249,249);">The Liberal Party was formed in the Australian parliament in 1944, and then consciously emulated Labor in building a branch network and mass membership to support it. The Liberal Party now dwarfs Labor with 78,000 members. The Nationals can claim 100,000.

[POWERZONE]

Dumped cabinet minister Eric Abetz has urged Liberal supporters to support the Turnbull Government amid concerns over "hundreds of resignations" from the party.


The former employment minister and leader of the house in the Senate — who lost both roles under new Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull — emailed supporters on Wednesday, saying members "owed allegiance" to party beliefs despite the change in leadership.


Senator Abetz reported "hundreds of resignations from the Liberal Party" following the leadership spill two weeks ago.


"It is disappointing to hear of a spate of resignations from the Liberal Party and of threats not to renew memberships over the recent federal leadership change in the Liberal Party," he said.

 
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-30/er...ty/6816938

 

Yes, Aloy, I'm aware the CFMEU is against the FTA with China but I don't believe they dictate ALP policy as much as reported by anti unionists > try this linky thingy

 

As previously mentioned the only people who "deserve employment" are those who go out and look for it.

 

It shouldn't happen at the expense of those who have already done so.


@green guy, I have frequently voted Green in the senate. Actually come to think of it they're probably the most worker friendly party out there which is probably why their popularity is gaining momentum. Keep up the good work I say!