Aaaaaah Leadership Where Is It When You Need It?

[Aloysius]

All the heart rending sympathy for the horror in Paris does not make up for the almost total lack of political leadership in the west - you know the cradle of democracy?

 

We would not be where we are if the pathetic jelly backed Obama " let's get out of Iraq whether we have finished the job or not " had never happened.

 

The result may well be Trump in the Whitehouse and Le Pen in the top job in France - Oh dear.

[POWERZONE]

All the heart rending sympathy for the horror in Paris does not make up for the almost total lack of political leadership in the west - you know the cradle of democracy?

 

We would not be where we are if the pathetic jelly backed Obama " let's get out of Iraq whether we have finished the job or not " had never happened.

 

The result may well be Trump in the Whitehouse and Le Pen in the top job in France - Oh dear.

Oh dear indeed.

 

Finish what job? Finding WMD's? That's right there aren't any...

 

So I agree, we would not be where we are had the west not taken down the Iraqi Govt, instilled an unstable makeshift replacement, and liberated ISIS in the first place. If we had decent leadership here at the time we would've told GWB and the US to stick their agressive behaviour up their own Khyber pass and look after our own backyard.

[Aloysius]

That's not what happened here a job was half done and feeble political will declined to complete it.

It would be a mistake to imagine that the WMD issue was anything more than a publicity tool.

 

I agree that the intent of the mongrels is to incite outrage but their intent should not govern any response.

 

It's axiomatic that if you want to communicate you must employ language that the other guy understands.

 

What language do you think these people understand?

The language they speak perchance? 

[POWERZONE]

There is no language. It's a faceless enemy. That's why people don't understand it.

 

The reason the job wasn't done is because it was the wrong job.

 

If it wasn't because of WMD's it can only be down to either conquest or oil.

 

Political will has very little to do with it. Lack of funding is the real issue. 

 

The US has had at least two Govt shutdowns of late because there's no more money.

 

US Fed Debt...

   

[Aloysius]

you might want to read what Waleed has to say about it Aloy

 

http://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/...7611388541

 

outrage is what they want, it has worked for them before and it could again

 

i believe Obama to be a very very strong leader in those circumstances ... he is possibly our only hope

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/australia-new...iral-video

 

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif;font-size:medium;">“Isil don’t want you to know they would quickly be crushed if they ever faced a proper army on a real battlefield. They want you to fear them.

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif;font-size:medium;">“Isil’s strategy is to split the world into two camps, it’s that black and white.”

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif;font-size:medium;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif;font-size:medium;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif;font-size:medium;">Waleed has it right inde
ed!

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif;font-size:medium;">And what we get from so called "leaders" in the west is "No boots on the ground"

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif;font-size:medium;"> 

<p style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:'Guardian Text Egyptian Web', Georgia, serif;font-size:medium;">well they can't both be right can they?

[Aloysius]

Never mind the rabbit decoy, the fact is that Mr Ali said what he said this group is actually weak and would easily be defeated by a real army

 

i think you dont realise they are both saying the same thing

 

it takes true leadership not to be led into an Arab trap

 

 ... unlike Tony Rabbit

 

 

What I do realise is that pussy footing around people who are not reasonable, who do not want to get on with people that are not as twisted as they are, is an absolute recipe for more of the same.

 

I'm not talking about easily manipulated children, I'm talking about the core, the manipulators that hate the freedom that the western democracies embrace and share.

 

These folks are the folks that demolish world heritage sites - says a lot about their concept of love doesn't it?

These are the folks that slaughter innocents because they are what they are, not because of anything they have done. I make the point that fellow muslims are the ones most damaged by these grubs.

 

If anyone believes that they will not take advantage of good will from the west they just don't read the news.

[Aloysius]

Heh Heh I guess pussie footing is an unacceptable word

[POWERZONE]

Sounds kinky to me :o

[Aloysius]

Yes there is no victory here for the savages - They probably fail to understand his concept of freedom.

[POWERZONE]

That.... will get messy :o

 

Stand by for the shirt front...

[Aloysius]

heres some leadership being shown by the shirt pullee

 

and i really dont think he will be concerned about Donald Trump either

 

 

http://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east...b9f965e490

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf2SZ_gjtA0

 

 

I bet those folks they drop their bombs on can't read Russian!!!

 

Particularly at the speed they would be travelling at.

[Aloysius]

 

what job? a botched job? or a carefully planned hatchet job?

 

they shot down a Russian plane over Syrian airspace (dont be too hasty to believe whatever is told to you by the Turks, a US Defence spokesman has confirmed it was over Syria when it got hit)

 

and then their terrorist mates yelling Aloha Snackbar machine gunned the pilots in their parachutes

 

lets just hope the Russians dont get too toey over it,

 

"The <b>shootdown of a Russian Sukhoi Su-24M</b>^[2] bomber aircraft by Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter jets occurred near the Syria–Turkey border on 24 November 2015.^[3] The pilot and weapon systems officer both ejected; one of them was killed by Turkmen rebels. According to Turkey, the aircraft was shot down in Turkish airspace, which it violated up to a depth of 1.36 miles (2.19 km) for about 17 seconds, after being warned to change its heading 10 times.^[4]^[5] Russia denied the aircraft ever left Syrian airspace and this is backed up by Russian Satellite evidence from the MoD of the Russian Federation, the plane was about 1,000 metres in Syrian airpspace when it was shot.^[6]"

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Russi..._shootdown}

 

 

I guess if I were a Turkman rebel in Syria being bombed and attacked by a Russian plane I may very well consider the crew to be legitimate targets.

[Aloysius]

Well here we are - it's ok to bomb - but it's not ok to shoot bombers?

 

 

Why not say it's not ok to bomb and kill multiple people as opposed to one person?

 

Emotion is a bit misleading here, the russian is a long way from home killing folks, the Turkman is at home being bombed - can't see why one get's sympathy and the other condemnation.

 

 

Any circumstances?????

[Aloysius]

not while they are defenceless in a parachute and free-falling, no, its not ok

 

its akin to shooting a surrendering prisoner with his hands raised in the air

 

what i think of their previous actions is irrelevant, or even what they may have done prior is also irrelevant

 

they could be Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and George Lucas floating down to earth, you dont shoot them in mid air

 

you dont shoot them after they have surrendered,

you dont shoot them whilst trying to escape if it can be avoided,

and you certainly dont shoot them because you dont like them

 

its what separates us from the ones being bombed for terrorist activities

 

it was a huge public relations blunder for the grubs we seem to be "supporting"

 

 

 

Can't see the issue - at all!

 

One second said aircrew is a combatant able to drop bombs or fire rockets.

Their plane is hit and they bale out for their own benefit - not to surrender.

Now the very people who were legitimately attempting to stop the plane are deemed grubs for shooting the escaping combatants.

 

What would be the difference if the hit on the aircraft killed the pilot but the navigator/bomber was shot attempting to escape?

 

 

Sorry Mel - I know your argument comes from a good heart, but emotion cannot guide us here.

[Aloysius]

friendly one minute, stabbed in the back the next ?

 

Turkey has no right to selectively close its airspace like that. we are supposed to be a coalition fighting terrorism, not one brand of terrorism whilst supporting so called "moderate" terrorism, all terrorism, and its patently obvious the Turks have their own brand of terrorists they support as long as they are killing Kurds, they will shoot down planes and machine gun free falling pilots whilst doing so

 

pfft

 

 

They have sovereign right to do it.

 

Who give Russians rights to fly where ever they like?

 

There is no coalition involving the russians, they have taken unilateral action (zero consultation with US UK NATO,Turkey) to prop up their boy Assad.

 

Gotta stick to the facts here.

[Aloysius]

Murder Schmerder- Just exactly what was the Russian attempting to do in Syria?

 

Was he bringing love gifts, food and medical supplies perchance?

 

All I'm getting out of this spate of anti Turkish cant is that - apparently - Russians are OK and Turks are not. 

 

Claims of Turkish violation of Greek airspace are tendered to legitimise Russian incursions into Turkey - hello - how does that work?

 

Why would anyone believe anything that the Putin terrorists claim - they unilaterally attack all and sundry in Syria - to back a mass murdering despot. - FACT

 

 

Each time one questions these anti Turkish comments a new wave of irrelevant claims and emotional claptrap is provided - "stinks of hypocrisy" alright.

 

 

Facts are still the best idea mate!

[Aloysius]

Sorry Mello, but your "guesses" are not facts to me!

[Aloysius]

And they are entitled to that opinion.


Similarly I am entitled to mine!


Odd that parachuting soldiers are fair game, but aircrew are deemed to be something a little more sacred.


It seems like some outdated thinking to me.

[Aloysius]

There you go - I can agree with that!!

 

Historical and hysterical hatreds, unfettered religious power, all conspire to destabilise a whole region, it cannot all be blamed on the West!

[Aloysius]

some go democracy go hard wouldnt go ashtray right now lol

 

(i would hazard a guess that will be twice you will agree with me ... on the same page)

 

sacre bleu

 

 

 

Christmas spirit!!!!!