Gst And It's Proposed Changes

[Aloysius]

OK,

We have an ALP attack against an idea - raising the GST to 15%.

 

This is not a policy of the government - as yet anyway - so it's a bit of a strawman argument.

 

That aside I was looking for my fellow forum members views on this idea.

 

Any rise in GST is said to be accompanied by a reduction in personal taxation and therefore good for regular folks - provided they have taxable income.

 

Would there need to be a similar handout to non income earners?

 

Any GST income increase goes to the States - hence the support from the SA and NSW premiers - why would the Feds risk public opposition for something that benefits the states only? Is it actually good policy and should therefore be supported?

 

I have no strong views at all about this - but would appreciate some insight from others.

 

I must say that Mr Shortens frequent claims about raising the GST by 15% appear to be deliberately misleading and unhelpful.

[POWERZONE]

The fact that GST revenue goes to the states is by itself a justification to not raise it further - particularly if compensation is then taken from the federal budget.

 

The original GST was OK by me because it replaced many other taxes (such as sales tax) and it didn't apply to food and a few other things.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to see any change and as it's a constitutional policy I think it's unlikely to happen anyway.

[Aloysius]

The fact that GST revenue goes to the states is by itself a justification to not raise it further - particularly if compensation is then taken from the federal budget.

 

The original GST was OK by me because it replaced many other taxes (such as sales tax) and it didn't apply to food and a few other things.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to see any change and as it's a constitutional policy I think it's unlikely to happen anyway.

 

 

You object to the States getting federal tax money?

 

Are you in favour of the states doing their own taxing and being more accountable to the taxpayers?

[POWERZONE]

Yes to the first question; it will lead to bigger deficits in the federal budget if that's where the "compensation" is coming from.

 

Yes to the second one as well. The states mostly broke the agreement to drop their taxes in exchange for the original GST revenue.

 

If we are compelled to being double taxed in this way, there seems little point in increasing the burden on consumers even further.

[Aloysius]

Yes to the first question; it will lead to bigger deficits in the federal budget if that's where the "compensation" is coming from.

 

Yes to the second one as well. The states mostly broke the agreement to drop their taxes in exchange for the original GST revenue.

 

If we are compelled to being double taxed in this way, there seems little point in increasing the burden on consumers even further.

 

 

Well there you go - I totally agree!

 

This is another form of the American revolution cry of "no taxation without representation"

 

 

In this case the money spent by states on health and education etc should be raised by them so that the voters can vote for the most responsible spenders!!!!!

[Aloysius]

Pete you really must try a little harder to understand and comprehend current affairs!!

 

The GST strawman issue used most extensively by BS. (His only issue attracting any interest)

 

The more often a lie is mouthed the more some see it as being true.

 

The whole scenario was conjured up because unlike Wayne Swan the the present Treasurer refused to rule out any possible taxation policy ideas. That is hardly a commitment to adopt a change to the GST.

 

Effectively the PM has let BS run off at the mouth attacking a strawman - relying on it as his only significant issue (however self contrived).

 

By subsequently removing the strawman with a few mild words the PM has removed BS's only talking point.

 

BS has once more advertised his total incompetence and his total lack of any qualities fitting him for national leadership, well done Bill!

[JSmith]

No.

 

GST is a regressive tax... we need a more progressive taxation idea.

 

A GST increase does raise the revenue, but at the expense of those who can least afford it.

 

JSmith 

[JSmith]

We need less spending!

 

Nah... you need to spend money to make money. Cutting everything just stagnates the economy, as do regressive taxes such as a GST.

 

Negative gearing is not producing the outcomes that were its initial intention, so some changes there will be well welcome.

 

JSmith 

[POWERZONE]

Better tell that to Abbott and the Greek Guy then.

 

$5b for paid maternal leave? Gimme a break.

[JSmith]

The idiots think u can spend for ever.

 

There's nothing idiotic about it at all Peter... you can spend forever if you have continuous growth and thus income from increased economic activity.

 

What you are suggesting will simply stagnate the economy...

 

There was never any "budget crisis"... that was made up by Mr Wabitt.

 

The LNP blew out the deficit too... basically they have done the complete opposite on almost every election promise.

 

Time to kick these fools out of Government.

 

JSmith 

[JSmith]

Who are you Smithy?

 

I'm JSmith and I'm always watching...

 

Relax Pete... play the ball and not the man eh?

 

JSmith 

[Aloysius]

Meanwhile, in the real world, the PM has endorsed Smithies view and ruled out any BS strawman claims about the GST.

 

As long as we have people who think that debt is good ( there are no negative consequences to them) we are going to have the situation that the only way to repay debt is to increase taxes one way or the other.

 

But this is unacceptable politically. 

 

That being the case we can continue to muddle along paying overseas banks for the privilege of borrowing their money to pay our debts - thereby increasing the debt.

 

Maxxing out your credit card is a fast way toward misery.

[JSmith]

Maxxing out your credit card is a fast way toward misery.

 

Hey Aloy.

 

A large economy is a very different beast to ones personal finances or budget... kinda comparing apples and oranges there really.

 

JSmith 

[POWERZONE]

Given the GST changes have been (wisely) dropped I guess the next tax debate will focus on negative gearing and superannuation?

[JSmith]

Given the GST changes have been (wisely) dropped I guess the next tax debate will focus on negative gearing and superannuation?

 

I certainly hope so... that seems to be what Labor is discussing anyway.

 

JSmith 

[Aloysius]

Too simplistic - so sorry - one attempts to communicate as clearly as one can.

 

If the credit card analogy is too simplistic then one urges contemplation of the condition that Greece finds itself in - self inflicted by the belief that the bills don't have to be paid.

 

While Aus is not in that condition - yet - the direction is the same.

 

10 years ago in surplus, in very strong employment - since then the direction is negative - much of it during the "Mining Construction Boom"

 

Do advise what your preference might be - Solvency or insolvency.

 

Once you make that clear to yourselves the way forward (or backward) becomes quite clear.

 

My preference is solvency brought about by fiscal discipline that rejects feel good national spending and builds for a better future.

 

Deferring our debt repayment to our kids and grandkids totally outdoes the baby boomer generation for self gratification and selfishness - but hey we do love our kids - don't we?

 

 

Like they say - there is no such thing as a free lunch - you just get someone else to buy it for you!

[Aloysius]

 

I certainly hope so... that seems to be what Labor is discussing anyway.

 

JSmith 

 

 

Good old Labor!

 

Doing what they do best - discussing.

 

I guess that's harmless - compared to them actually doing stuff, or not.

 

8 different illegal immigration policies they dream't of - none worked.

 

You guys just keep discussing - it makes me feel much safer.

[JSmith]

Investment in infrastructure is building for a better future... and in turn that infrastructure contributes to the growing economy.

 

JSmith 

[JSmith]

You guys just keep discussing - it makes me feel much safer.

 

I hope so... that is the point of this whole discussion Aloy.

 

JSmith 

[POWERZONE]

Any tax debate is going to focus on handouts... paid maternal leave, negative gearing concessions, superannuation tax concessions, Tony Abbott's confessions all constitute a "free lunch" (including the onion)


We fixed the onion, what's next?


P.S. Never had a credit card, and as you can see, the cart is empty