Exit Or Not?

[Guest]

Only a few more days until the big vote!

Alas I am on record as in favour of Exit.

Simply for one reason, England should be master of it's own destiny.

I.E. Regain their sovereignty!

However a poster has chided me by saying England has never lost it's sovereignty.

I disagree and at least one coloumnist agrees with me.

In todays Herald Sun Georgian Downer writes:

Page 24.

[POWERZONE]

Early counting has brexit at 52% and the markets are crashing fast :o

[POWERZONE]

It's going up and down at the moment. Last update was 51% remain.

Needless to say, markets are following. Hard to keep up with all this volatility.

I've traded banks and BHP 44 times already today. Normally I'm lucky to score 10 a day.

Crazy stuff.

[POWERZONE]

Looks like an exit is on.

OZ Market now down 3.5%

[petersj]

It was certainly a surprise and not looking for any conflict but still believe its a victory for the right and it was about racism.

One thing is for certain the concerns about immigration are real and the people have felt ignored.

Poor explanation and poor management. Too much too quickly.

People were worried and felyt they were being taken over. Wrongly obviously but you cannot blame the people.There was never much done to alleviate concerns.

I believe that Britain will live to regret its decision

I always liked Cameron and thought he was a balanced leader. Pity. The thought of Boris scares me.

England will change and I hope it changes for the better. I doubt it.

None of us really expected this result and if as U suspect it will go pear shaped can England ever get back in.

Be interesting to see what happens with Scotland who voted to stay.

We are feeling the impact in our retirement funds already.

[petersj]

http://leftfootforward.org/2016/06/watch...ld-war-ii/

[Aloysius]

Whatever our emotional responses to this event a few things stand out:

• The PM had the courage to let the people decide
  
• The people decided - it's called democracy folks, not racism. All 20m Brexit voters cannot be racist!
  
• Far too much fear has been raised -- as I understand it it takes at least two years to negotiate out of the EU
  
• Presumably during that time second thoughts may be entertained if some facts emerge rather than scare campaigns.
  
• Britains business is Britains business - they are determining their own destiny - whether we like it, or agree with it, or not.
  

[Aloysius]

Nah you just don't appear to get it - at all.

 

A victory for the majority is called democracy - you appear not understand that.

 

Just try your line of reasoning in a union meeting.

 

Stupid is as stupid does - that includes emotional rants that belittle democratic process.

 

Abusing the right to vote????

 

 

How exactly is that done - is it just anyone who votes differently to you?

 

 

I can imagine this process happening in other EU countries would they be stupid too?

 

 

And who says so?

 

Voting to absent ones country from yet another, higher level of bureaucracy, makes a fair bit of sense to many.

[Aloysius]

And why do you care anyway?

[petersj]

Of course we cannot be certain that it will really effect immigration.

If Scotland goes for independance and I thik theywil and opts t rejoin the EU that will be a challenge.

Of course it may be a storm in a tea cup. Nothing will change and the world will turn.

[petersj]

Because the referendum result was close there are many wanting another vote.

Nice idea but full of problems.

This would be a slippery slope indeed. It will make all referendums invalid.

As others here are saying its democracy. Maybe. It was more about a foolish mistake in having a referendum.

They took the electorate for granted. They oten do.

I am totally convinced  after a few years they will decide to vote again. I very much doubt that they woud be let in 

On the other hand it may turn out well for Britain. None of us know.

Most of the ones who voted to leave were older people. Its an aging population.

But to go and vote again now it wont happen. It shouldnt. Democracy, as fickle as it is ,has spoken.

Some say the vote was not based on xenophobia but I struggle to see how they can say that. Of course it was.

Report after report are angry old seniors saying that they need to get the foreigners out. They are mostly poorly educated but not exclusively.

 

My view of immigration is that it has long been badly handled. Too many too quickly and no clear preparation or education.

The younger generation are more comfortable with multiculturalism and very few have even tried a pork pie with bramston pickles.

I think the Scots will be winners. There will be another  vote for independence and I predict a staggering majority to support .Scotland will remain in the EU. So will Ireland.

So it should and let us hope it does.

THey voted to leave but members of their own family will most certainly leave them.

[petersj]

Still its a democracty for better or for worse.

I think Cameron should have shown more guts andsay that while Britain had made its choice that he believed it was a terrible choice. 

Still what ever we think Britain made itschoice and we have to accept it.

[petersj]

This might surprise some but I blame Labor under Jeremy Corbyn for much of this. It was a pathetic lacklustre campaign and Corbyn represents a 1950s idea of Labor. He is out of his depth and the worse leader Labor has had in my life time. I would vote conservative before him.

Cameron should however not have been so polite. The politie over used expression the people have decided was a missed opportunity. The people did make a choice, the wrong one.He should have spelt it out clearly that many who voted for leaving made a disastrous decision and then resigned. Mind you I blame him for the referendum in the first place. Stupid is as stupid does.!

If they voted again it would be a different result but I think that starts a very very precarious situation. A real slippery slope: indeed all referendums would be null and void. As much as many might hate the decision we need to as Brits often say stay calm and carry on. 

With Scotland almost certainly breaking away and staying with the EU and I believe a new successful independence vote and Ireland doubtful maybe (?) we better now call it Little Britain.

It was however a democratic vote albeit one thousands according to polls, regret. A country left a united Europe and created a divided Britain.

There are a few scares I dont like. I dont believe there will be a civil war. The young and academic fighting old men and women ? Come on!

Nor do I think England will be inevitably a third world country.

May I ask a question and this is purely academic...

Is the Government of a country BOUND to carry out a referundum reslt IF it isconsidered bad for the country? I know any Gov that did this would most certainly be in political hot water but as a judge can ver turn a jury decision I wonder if a Government can. 

In the end I still think the vote has been made and England must live with it.

[Aloysius]

Well they could try and if the majority object they can vote the government out.


The government knows that?

[Aloysius]

and what about the Ukraine ?

 

your sentiments on the results of the Ukrainian election where a pro-Moscow government was returned, ?

however thanks to Western interference a civil war broke out resulting in the unfortunate downing of MH-17 and loss of countless innocent lives ?

 

do you afford the Ukraine the same respect for their democracy ?

Of course I do!


You opine about interference is your opinion and it's your interpretation and it's based on your values and biases,


Not everyone subscribes to the same values and biases , they have their own.


They may not suit you but they are equally valid.

[petersj]

The racial vilification in Britain with incidents such as teling a little Polish boy he is vermin is growing. Polish people work hard pay taxes.

If this was not about racism I yet to be convinced. 

Hate has won the day. I am frequently attacked by red necks for a holier than thou attitude looking down on the plebs. I would rather be hated by the red necks than to be one of them.

 

I am disgusted with the use of euphemisms used by the right.

The Nazis were masters of it.

Instead of murder and genocide that used terms like special action and final solution.

Instead of admitting you are xenophobic racists and bigots we use terms like sovereignty, border protection.

We waffle on about the terrible people sugglers which is a shallow cover up for WE DONT WANT YOU HERE..

We even call asylum seekers  (quite legal) ILLEGALS!!

 

I too am not free of some aspects of xenophobia. The difference is unlike some I dont try to justify it and convince myself its right. I try to get more informed.

 

I am not saying all exit voters are Nazis but there cannot be constant denials, the exercise was racially motivated nor should we ever stop drawing parallels.

[POWERZONE]

Share markets are going green again. That's something

[petersj]

My comments are simply from the evidence I see the whole exit campaign was based on racism.

Throughout this debate I hear condemnation of political correctness. Actually the term was used by conservatives not the left.

 

<p style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-familyans-serif;">Another British journalist, Will Hutton,^[60]^[61]^[62]^[63] wrote in 2001:

 

Political correctness is one of the brilliant tools that the American Right developed in the mid–1980s, as part of its demolition of American liberalism.... What the sharpest thinkers on the American Right saw quickly was that by declaring war on the cultural manifestations of liberalism – by levelling the charge of "political correctness" against its exponents – they could discredit the whole political project.

— "Words Really are Important, Mr Blunkett"^[21]

^{Back to topic I simply say that the treatment of a child was criuel. Surely we all agree on that. We surely do not want to see Britain sending these poor souls back?}
 
^{PeterJ says}
I am an elderly white anglo Christian male, guess what I am a rascist pig, so of course I am on the end of it!
 Thats the trouble with you Peterj. You have no ambiton.

[POWERZONE]

we cant say black?

 

i remember Ernie Dingo's stock market reports on Fast Forward, he would sign off with "Im Ernie Dingo, and im always in the black" lol

lol


What a coincidence that 3 weeks prior to a Brexit Axl Rose does a London tour with the Back in Black band.

For the (off) record... I thought having Axl Rose fronting AC/DC might be akin to converting a 289 '65 Mustang to a front wheel drive with the Axle being in the wrong place, but it didn't sound half bad after all. LOL

[POWERZONE]

jumped to an early 1% start this morning

Indeedy

 

I seem to be having a huge run with BHP at the moment... buy in the afternoon, sell in the morning. Luvin it.