Is Labor Shooting Itself In The Foot?

[Aloysius]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Chaos or crime - is that the choice?

[POWERZONE]

If that's the choice I'll take neither - I'd rather pay the fine

[Aloysius]

I can agree with that!

[Aloysius]

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/bully...7290679731

 


Bully tactics: Unionists bullies name and shame small business on Facebook for closing over Easter
 

Oh gosh, Oh Golly, the downtrodden workers representatives (self elected) are on the case Whoop de doo !!

[POWERZONE]

Good on them! One correction to the previous post however.


Unionists name and shame small business who whinge about penalty rates then close over Easter.

 

If a business wants to complain about my penalty rates.... fine - as long as they accept that I have a right of reply.

[Aloysius]

Good on them! One correction to the previous post however.


Unionists name and shame small business who whinge about penalty rates then close over Easter.

 

If a business wants to complain about my penalty rates.... fine - as long as they accept that I have a right of reply.

 

Presumably you give them the right to stay in business and continue to provide jobs?

[POWERZONE]

 

Presumably you give them the right to stay in business and continue to provide jobs?

 

No, I don't. No one does. There's no such thing as a "right to stay in business" in a free market.

[POWERZONE]

In the end the business owner has the right to open or close whenever he wishes.
When I walk along High St on any given Sunday or Saturday some businesses are open some are closed.
Mandating what should be paid to employees is fine but:
Methinks someone forgot the law of unintended consequences!
And rightly the employee has the right to not work for something he considers not worth the effort.

I would agree with most of that apart from the law of unintended consequences bit.

Weekend penalty rates have been around for 100 years, long enough for every small business owner to be fully aware of their responsibilities regarding pay and conditions before they start operating the business. 
 
If the business becomes viable... great. If not, do something else or go somewhere else.

It's a free market therefore it's pointless blaming the law of the land that was put there by the will of the electorate.
 
If your boss can make money from pulling you away from your family time s/he needs to compensate you for doing it.

Ask the voters, they agree

[POWERZONE]

Hi Peter.

 

If the streets were deserted and shops shut that means the workers were having a day off and/or spending time with their families - just like everyone else.

 

I don't think that's an unintended consequence.

[POWERZONE]

Peter, NSW has the same IR laws regarding penalty rates on public holidays.

 

Whether the business owner wants to open on marginal days or not is entirely up to them as you say.

 

However it's not very smart for the business owner to use their front window as some kind of anti worker billboard.

 

That's what the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry told them to do in an effort to push their own agenda.

 

Fortunately, the ads didn't last long. People all over Australia told their local shopkeepers and café owners that if their businesses displayed the posters, customers would take their custom elsewhere.


Kate Carnell, the chief executive officer of the ACCI, said on Monday some small business owners had been intimidated. Some, she said, were called names. And on top of all that, the unions ran a social media campaign.


"Free speech is OK but not to claim you are going to boycott," she said.


Intimidating? That's a word which gets bandied about a lot and frequently by bullies themselves but in this case, you'd have to imagine it's useful to tell a shopkeeper you plan to take your custom elsewhere. It's like giving people notice when you plan to move out.

Censoring free speech? Yes, you can say what you like and display what you like, but Australians have the right to shop where they like. Money is the language of power in this consumer relationship.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/...mfblu.html


Peter, the point is the shopkeepers aren't arguing with Big Hearted Danny, they're arguing with the Australian people.

[POWERZONE]

The NSW premier? Too early to tell. Since the election they've only had enough time for a cabinet reshuffle.

 

The Victorian premier is so far keeping his election promises despite pressure from the feds and non Labor groups.

The overtime rates, public holidays and ditching the EWL were all promised prior to the election so at this point I reckon what you're seeing there is leadership.

 

I can assure you penalty rates is very strongly supported among the community; every poll I've seen has overwhelming support. I think it's because despite the fact we're all working harder we seem to be getting less and less rewarded for our efforts and we have become resistant to further erosion of our conditions. In fact I'd say we're sick to death of it.

 

The question that needs to asked is why are employers so hell bent on scabbing off the workers?

 

Partly because there's an obviously greed element. Also some business owners can't accept responsibility for their business becoming non viable

 

Also consumer confidence has gone down the toilet since the budget. This then brings in the question of interest rates. They are sooooo low that investors are pulling their money out of cash investments and entering the share market chasing better returns.

 

This causes companies to alter their performance objectives - instead of investing they are cost cutting faster than you can say "Let's have an early election"

 

Thanks to the cost cutting the pay rises for workers are at all time lows and in many cases not even keeping up with inflation.

 

The end result is money is being siphoned away from the worker and going to the capitalist.

 

People advocating the lowering of wages or penalty rates are merely speeding up that process.

[POWERZONE]

Hey Peter, back on ch#wsd#y!

 

LOL

 

#

[Aloysius]

the old "penalty rates is killing my business" chestnut eh,

 

"cant afford to open because the penalty rates will send me into the red"

 

in a working class heartland, the working class want to do just that ...work!! (by choice)

 

or not work (by choice)

 

its the choice we have, however when a tightarse decides to make a big deal out of staying closed because of the aforementioned chestnuts, that worker no longer has that choice and is deprived the chance to make some extra quid if he/she needed it

 

well tell em mello sent him this...

 

http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story...ts/?cs=300

 

Restaurants and cafes which remained open along Wollongong's "eat street" said the increased trade over three public holidays compensated for higher penalty rates paid to staff

 

 

 

 

 

 

The "Too Big to IGNORE" campaign saw groups such as the Illawarra Business Chamber urge business owners to place signs in their window informing customers high penalty rates prevented them from opening over the long weekend.

whattaloadofshit the IBC is

 

 

The other side of the argument is that those who provide work to give workers a choice should presumably have the right of choice too?

 

Why should they be doomed to servicing the aspirations of others and not their own?

[Aloysius]

 

there is no other side to the argument...that was the point of my post, that they claim penalty rates are sending them broke.

 

and thats been proven to be a lie, so to close their doors based on a lie can only mean they do indeed have a right to be greedy, but they need to state that as their reason for not opening, ...  not blaming their victims (their own employees)

 

 

Let me help you here Mello : If there is no other side,

 

 

then there is no argument!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 There is the lie :ras:  :ras:

[Aloysius]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national...7300811648

 


"Newspoll: Bill Shorten posts worst ratings as Tony Abbott claws back ground"

 

 

Ooops
Foot duly shot Sir!!!!!

[Aloysius]

In your opinion

but you were wrong about there being no other side - why would your opinion have any greater veracity?

 

Is foot shooting the new thing?

[Aloysius]

not my opinion, the fact that local Illawarra business owners went to the newspaper to report that the increase in trade compensated for the penalty rates

 

the penalty rates compensated the workers having to (or choosing to) work over Easter

 

the only "other side" referenced were the business owners who also have a choice whether to open or close ...of course they have that right, and you are correct in pointing that out, however, they shouldnt offer the lie that the penalty rates are preventing them from opening, as if they have no choice

 

i guess small business owners with integrity and pursuit of the truth as a priority and willing to stand up to being bullied into a dubious and highly questionable "campaign" must be a rarity

 

Guessing is good, I guess! :officechair:  :officechair:  :officechair: