Well Done Conservatives - Printable Version

Well Done Conservatives - Printable Version

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Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 07-08-2016

Quote:Good grief man - you are asking for strong government and leadership in one breath then proposing that they have no authority to decide.

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Well hello sailor - we are never going to agree if you can for one solitary moment imagine that Rudd the megalomaniacal persecutor of colleagues and hairdressers has more class than Turnbull, you either are easily misinformed or have a very strange set of values when it comes to "class"

Your first sentence is akin to saying this Govt is weak because it doesn't decide who goes to the olympics, doesn't decide interest rates, doesn't decide IR laws.

Sounds to me like you're rooting for an authoritarian Govt.

Here's something to keep you busy for a while Aloysius. "Australia-UN relations in 2008"

In March 2008, senior United Nations officials travelled to Canberra to meet Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, elected three months earlier. According to The Age, the aim was to "repair relations". Hilde Johnson, deputy director of UNICEF, stated that Rudd was showing "stronger support" for the United Nations and multilateralism than his predecessor John Howard had During Howard's Prime Ministership, UN high commissioner for human rights Mary Robinson had criticised Australia's human rights record. Johnson stated that the new Australian government had "explicitly said there's going to be a change, that the government will engage strongly and pro-actively with the UN". For the Australian government, Bob McMullan said that his country's "relationship with the major multi-lateral organisations has deteriorated in a manner that is quite contrary to Australia's long-term interests and needs to be repaired"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia_and_the_United_Nations

So there you go. You can hate Kevin Rudd all you like. But you can't deny his record of international diplomacy. And that's what counts for suitability.

There is no point in saying that I'm "misinformed" when your own viewpoint is distorted by such hatred.

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Behave! B)

Well Done Conservatives - Aloysius - 08-08-2016

I don't hate Rudd at all - I feel sorry for him - he has desires and longings that he just isn't suited to -Â

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As for your quote: have a look - you are equating internal human rights policy with international diplomacy only because Mary Robinson was involved.

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You are also quoting what Rudd was going to do - did he actually do it or was it yet another empty promise to match the empty coffers he provided so diplomatically!!!!

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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/paul-kelly/the-tragedy-of-kevin-rudd-can-be-traced-to-a-personality-flaw/news-story/1ce99fd6672a5b6359f269e34a032666

The tragedy of Kevin Rudd can be traced to a personality flaw
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"ONCE in office, Kevin Rudd defied the orthodoxy and engaged in the most centralised, novel and risky experiment in prime ministerial power since Gough Whitlam. Rudd had two critical weaknesses â managing people and running a government. In opposition he was a master but those skills did not translate easily into office, a story that perplexed the Labor Party and sent it on a voyage ending in panic.

The Rudd prime ministership is a truly tragic tale of a leader with the potential to become a great prime minister brought undone by his flaws. The explanation lies in Ruddâs complex personality. Kevin was a brilliant solo player but not an effective team leader. This was the heart of the problem. It is the best explanation for the extraordinary saga that saw Kevin transition in just 2Â½ years from Labor hero to repudiated prime minister."

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"Rudd failed to deploy cabinet power to solidify his own position. This management flaw was multiplied by his erratic personality. Over time Rudd saw his relations either decline or degenerate with nearly every major institutional figure in the system: Gillard as deputy, Wayne Swan as treasurer, Terry Moran as his departmental head, Karl Bitar as party national secretary, Mark Arbib as his sole Praetorian guard and even Quentin Bryce as governor-general."

"Gillard said: âKevinâs operating style was dysfunctional. It was a great pity. Kevin is a highly intelligent man. If you wanted to talk to someone over dinner about the geopolitics of the region for the next 20 years, then you couldnât have a better companion than Kevin Rudd. But Kevinâs fatal flaw was that he couldnât delegate, he couldnât manage his time, he couldnât plan strategically as opposed to plan tactically."

Greg Combet was promoted under both Rudd and Gillard. He offers a practical yet alarming view of Ruddâs style: âYouâd have to say the government had become dysfunctional. Ruddâs approach to governing was the real reason he was replaced. Thatâs not often appreciated.

âRudd failed in his management of his colleagues on any assessment. He tried to take it all on himself. He was terrified of leaks and wanted to keep everything tight; colleagues were not engaged, cabinet processes were not followed. The SPBC system (the strategic priorities and budget committee, or âgang of fourâ, consisting of Rudd, Gillard, Swan and finance minister Lindsay Tanner) led to very poor process."

When their relations died, Swan revealed some of his concealed views about Rudd, once one of his closest family friends. He became Ruddâs sharpest critic: âThe central problem with Rudd is that he didnât listen to people, he treated people badly.

âHis tendency was to be unfocused, jumping from issue to issue, handing down dictates to people, not consulting, overreacting, trying to run a 24âhour news cycle. This really started to emerge after we came out of the global financial crisis from June-July-August in 2009. He got smashed by the Oceanic Viking at that stage.â

Swan had known Rudd longer than any of the ministers. He said he was unsurprised. Interviewed for this book, he said: âThe problem, to be extremely frank, is Kevin is not suited to lead a team, if you want to sum it up. He had neither the temperament nor the interpersonal relations. And it is a pattern of behaviour that has been repeated in his career."

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These are direct quotes from those around and close to Mr Rudd - what makes anyone think they were all wrong?

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Time to stop digging the hole one advises.

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 09-08-2016

Aloy. I think you've missed the point altogether.

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Your replies where you quote Labor pollies you've previously condemned might have meant something if I ever said I wanted Kevin Rudd in the job.

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As previously stated I didn't say I want him in the job.

As previously stated I didn't say I don't want him in the job.

As previously stated I don't care whether Rudd gets the job or not.

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What I'm saying is he should still be able to apply for it. The UN can then make their own decision.

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They really don't need Malcolm Turnbull's advice as to whether Rudd can apply for the position or not.

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But since you've decided to build your arguments' credibility on ALP figures being true and frank and honest let's put up another 3 pages of HD widescreen large font quotes from these fine reformed characters...

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"Former Labor foreign minister Gareth Evans says the government's refusal to nominate Kevin Rudd for the position of UN secretary general will be viewed around the world as petty, partisan and vindictive.

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Mr Evans, now chancellor of the Australian National University, said it was wrong to stop a prominent Australian from seeking a position for which he was regarded internationally as manifestly qualified.

He said Mr Rudd's temperament and management style had been an issue in domestic politics but it was hardly unusual for political leaders to be seen by colleagues and opponents as falling short of sainthood.

As well, he was at best a long shot candidate, being neither Eastern European nor female, both seen as an advantage this time round.

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>>>> Mr Evans said the government didn't have to campaign actively for him, just not stand in his way <<<<

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"It will be embarrassing internationally as well as seen as petty, partisan and vindictive by most governments around the world, regardless of whether they would be inclined to support Rudd," he said on the Australian Strategic Policy Institute blog.

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Mr Evans said until now, Australian politics had upheld a long and civilised tradition of support across party lines for credible candidates for international positions, he said.

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"What makes the abandonment of this tradition in the Rudd case not only indecent but politically wrong-headed is that Turnbull's government has just been elected with at best a one-vote majority in the House of Representatives," he said.

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Mr Evans said the decision defied the government's need for a more bipartisan spirit to get its legislation through parliament.

The government will need every vote it can get and in a number of cases will have to rely on Labor support.

"But the Rudd decision has left a very bad taste in Labor mouths and in those of some other independents as well," he said."

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http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/rudd-veto-petty-and-vindictive-evans/news-story/2680fbc5a29e2a6a8fe49f6f8c1d9d22

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There you go. My font's bigger than yours Smile

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 09-08-2016

AUSTRALIAâS triple-A credit rating will be downgraded if the Turnbull Government canât manage its âwafer thinâ majority and pass budget savings measures, former treasurer Peter Costello says.

The stern warning comes as former cabinet minister Eric Abetz hit out at Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull over the Coalitionâs superannuation policy and his failure to promote conservatives, such as former PM Tony Abbott, to the frontbench.

Mr Abbott said while he wonât return as party leader, he wants to influence the future direction of the Liberal Party over the next three years to try to âcrystallise and clarify where centre-right politics in this country goesâ.

Speaking to the ABC TVâs Four Corners program, Senator Abetz issued his own warning to senior Government MPs saying: âit will only take one person or two in the House of Representatives to cross the floor to defeat Government legislation.â

Peter Costello has warned Turnbull is under pressure to maintain Australiaâs credit rating.

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Abbott - their self interest is bad for our democracy...

âIf we keep going full steam ahead and pretend that nothing happened on the Second of July ... we will be going to an electoral disaster in 2019.â

The conservative Senator is leading a push within the Coalition to change the Governmentâs superannuation policy which targets generous tax breaks.

With one member of the Coalition â conservative Queensland MP George Christensen â already threatening to cross the floor if policy isnât changed, former treasurer Peter Costello said Mr Turnbull will be âbeholdenâ to his backbench.

Mr Costello â who was treasurer under former prime minister John Howard â said it will be an âalluring prospectâ for Coalition MPs to sit on the crossbench.

âThis is the risk on any particular issue at any particular time, not that these people will cross the floor, but theyâll threaten to go independent.â

He said the Governmentâs one-seat majority has rattled ratings agencies who now believe the chances for budget repair have declined.

âWill we make any progress on our budget deficit? Will we be able to reduce debt? If weâre not able to do that, if the political situation stops us from doing that, thatâs the time weâll get a downgrade,â the former treasurer warned.

During the one hour program which examined the challenges facing the Coalition, former PM Tony Abbott also called for reform within the NSW Liberal Party saying lobbyists are acting as powerbrokers and creating âa potential for corruptionâ.

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http://www.news.com.au/national/malcolm-turnbulls-wafer-thin-majority-a-threat-to-australian-economy-peter-costello/news-story/44638f467b43ca79955654acfc3d4280

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Looks like the destabilisation has already begun :officechair:

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Let's have an early election Smile

Well Done Conservatives - Aloysius - 09-08-2016

Destabilisation is going to be the big problem for this great country.

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Excellent example - the BS furore about census information - it's another "my rights" as opposed to "my responsibility"

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Insatbility is the way to extremeism - witness Pauline Hansens rise.

Instability does nothing to help the economy.

Instability is the great ally of terrorists that's why they work to increase it.

Instability is nothing to be gleeful about.

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As for wanting an early election - that is pure inability to accept a democratic election result.

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The country woill not benefit at all from any such action.

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One does not recall such calls from the ALP lovers when we had a minority government.

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Heh Heh says heaps really!

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 09-08-2016

Aloy that's hilarious :officechair:

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Anyone can recall calls for an early election when the ALP had a minority government and the majority of it came from Tony Abbott.

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Let's not forget how he trolled the parliament no less than 75 times with no confidence motions.

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"Let's have an early election" is a direct quote from him that I use to shake the tree and watch the monkeys fall outÂ Smile

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Yes, I do remember seeing much glee, not to mention "ditch the witch" posters from Lib supporters during that period Tongue

ig:

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The destabilisation you're seeing today is coming from the conservatives and it's time for them to be rounded up with a cattle prod and sent to the Wilson Tuckey far queue which is where it started when they knifed Turnbull the first time.

Well Done Conservatives - petersj - 09-08-2016

The post by( Í¡Â° ÍÊ Í¡Â°) is spot on.

Actually I think the treatment of Gillard was shameful regardless of your politics. I know all politicians are fair game but I am over the treatment of the person rather than the policy.

What do I call you( Í¡Â° ÍÊ Í¡Â°)? It might have been explained but I dont visit all that often. By the way all posters should read this guy more carefully before criticising...he is very impressive intellectually.

Well Done Conservatives - Aloysius - 09-08-2016

Well PZ, happy to bring a little laughter to you I reckon you deserve it!!

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I didn't call for an early election!

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I speak for me not the politicians.

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I'm sure you would agree that instability is a bad thing - where ever it comes from.

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Right now the instability related to Rudd is, as usual, driven by his ego, I agree with GG Rudd is a very clever person - but so are a lot of other selfcentred folks.

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I don't say he is stupid I say he is a self centred, ego driven megalomaniac, and I get that from those who new him best.

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My observation of his behaviour sees nothing different.

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As a proud australian I would be horrified to have my country judged on Mr Rudd's white-anting behaviour patterns.

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 09-08-2016

Aloy, as a proud Australian I have frequently been horrified to have my country judged on our Govt's behaviour over the last decade...

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Think Iraq war, refugees, climate change, aid funding cuts.

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In this case it's a bit more petty and just another example of putting party bias before everything else. I think Garath Evans has a point. If Labor behave the way Turnbull has just done he will have Buckley's chance of cooperation with passage of Govt policy.

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Blocking a nomination based on a character reference of SOME people is petty and vindictive.

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Brendon Nelson was our lowest rated opposition leader, but I was happy for him to get his overseas gig and it was Kevin Rudd that nominated his position. You think that's self centred, ego driven megalomania?

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Peter, I'd suggest to Matt Ryan that he buy himself a new set of toys to throw around his cot. We have a new UN secretary coming up at the end of the year and using his logic the toys will be thrown regardless of who wins the post.

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GG,Â I've changed my screen name to " PZ " so feel free to use that Smile

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 09-08-2016

The 2016 Liberal Loans affair! This one is a doozy > http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-09/nsw-liberal-party-money-woes/7710676

"The New South Wales division of the Liberal Party took out two multi-million-dollar loans with Westpac in little over a year as it struggled with deep financial problems in the lead-up to the federal election campaign.

Internal documents sighted by Four Corners reveal that the embattled Liberal Party division took out the first $7 million loan with Westpac prior to the NSW state election in March 2015, secured against anticipated public funding from the NSW Electoral Commission (NSWEC).

But that funding of $4.4 million was withheld by the NSWEC amid concerns that donations, made through the Liberal Party's Free Enterprise Foundation, had possibly breached donation laws.

The parlous state of party finances forced the NSW division of the Liberal Party to inform the NSWEC in March it would have to retrench staff if the $4.4 million was not paid.

In April, it took out another loan with Westpac, this time secured against anticipated public funding flowing from this year's federal election.

The financial woes in the NSW division came as Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull personally made a reported contribution to Liberal Party coffers of more than $2 million in the last weeks before the July 2 federal poll.

At the same time, the Liberal's NSW division was sending increasingly desperate letters, including from NSW Liberals state director Chris Stone, imploring members to "step up and donate $10".

"Even $5 would make a difference," finance director and former federal MP Peter McGauran wrote to party members the day before the election.

"According to multiple NSW Liberal Party sources, the party's finances had been hit hard by a string of large expenses.

The by-election for Joe Hockey's traditionally safe seat of North Sydney last November, won by NSW party president Trent Zimmerman, cost as much as $800,000, or four times the usual amount for a by-election party sources said.

NSW Liberal Party funds have also been drained by an expensive Supreme Court challenge by party members aggrieved by the moderate-dominated state executive's use of "special powers" to wind up branches with a conservative leaning.

One leading party operative said federal election campaign financing was hampered also by Liberal Party members refusing to pay membership dues, make donations or help out on election day amid disquiet about the ousting of Tony Abbott and anger at rampant factionalism in the party.

Former NSW Liberal Party honorary treasurer Michael Yabsley told Four Corners the NSW division of the party was in the midst of a "civil war" and called for federal intervention.

"In NSW, the total membership of the Liberal Party is about 8,000. I would say half of those are involved mainly for factional reasons," he said.

"The Liberal Party has to democratise. It has to overcome the problem of the ludicrously small membership base that it's got. It has to fix up its fundraising. "

Corporate donations also dried up this year, multiple Liberal Party sources said. Much of this was the result of the publicity surrounding the Free Enterprise Foundation, a federally registered body that had allegedly funnelled funds to the state campaign from prohibited donors under NSW laws."

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So Turnbull had to pay 2 million dollars to replenish lost donations because he knifed Tony Abbott? Priceless!

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Rats in a barrel Tongue

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 09-08-2016

How about "discrimination" ?

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I'm not hitting on Mat Ryan. I'm not that kinda bloke. I'm challenging his logic.

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Are you hitting on Kevin Rudd? :bee:

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 10-08-2016

Hi Peter.

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Labor are publicly backing Kevin Rudd, that's a fact. Half the Libs are backing him, that's another fact.

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Henceforth, the majority of the parliament are backing him, presumably in light of his previous experience.

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IMO Turnbull is wrong to say Rudd doesn't suit the criteria.

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Therefore quod erat demonstrandum he is either playing petty politics or is being held to ransom by haters in the far right of the Govt, which is vindictive.

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Getting members of parliament off side is fine if you don't need their support in the senate.

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however I'm sure Labor are quite capable of being just as vindictive when it comes to blocking Turnbull's policies for the sake of political mileage. In fact, with Shorten as leader, it'll definitely happen.

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As I said from the outset, Turnbull doesn't seem to have realised that he is just one seat away from a minority Govt.

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His normal "born to rule" mentality will backfire and he may not even last one term unless he can learn to stop burning bridges.

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Realistically, Shorten has him by the short 'n' curlies :Loser:

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 11-08-2016

Malcolm Turnbull's assessment is incorrect of course...

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His double dissolution has doubly disillusioned him.

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It's not just Bill Shorten who has him by the short 'n' curlies.

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Other Libs with leadership aspirations will add this failure to his growing list of errors.

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An early election might help clear things up Smile

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 12-08-2016

The assessment was grossly erroneous and if Malcolm Turnbull can't deal with it in a bi partisan manner then it's a classic example as to why Govt shouldn't be involved in the selection process.

Well Done Conservatives - Aloysius - 15-08-2016

Heh Heh Heh the last few posts you made PZ give a bit of an insight into your claimed independence - you are continually spouting the ALP line!

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that is the line that says that KR was a dysfunctional megalomaniac - but now - NOW he is fabulously well credentialled for one of the globes most important diplomatic posts.

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HELLO what part of this makes any sense at all except as cheap political attacaks on a decision supported by most of Rudds ex colleagues, all of the LNP, about 65% of the national electorate.

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(That is those who did not support Rudd in the Rudd Abbott election)

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Spurious claims of Rudd support are mere political posturing of the most unsupportable flights of fancy.

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Come to think of it Rudd has successfully demonstrated his diplomatic unsuitability over this issue, he has reinforced identification of his massive egoism, he has yet again demonstrated his strong desire to be centre stage.

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Just because someone learn't Chineses does not qualify them to be a major diplomat particularly in places other than China :ras:

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Time to stop digging PZ, credibility is at stake here!

Well Done Conservatives - petersj - 15-08-2016

With respect I think PZ and his credibility Â is not at stake. I find PZ to be intellectully most impressive.

Aloyisius I am sure you are a nice person but not quite as smart as PZ. With further study you could be a very good poster.

Well Done Conservatives - Aloysius - 15-08-2016

Quote:With respect I think PZ and his credibility Â is not at stake. I find PZ to be intellectully most impressive.

Aloyisius I am sure you are a nice person but not quite as smart as PZ. With further study you could be a very good poster.

Oooooooooooooh GG how cutting!!

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Happilly I need no ones approval.

Even less I do not need judgement on my intelligence.

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For what it's worth I have a great deal of respect, and have had it for a long time, for my fellow poster PZ - I believe he is aware of that.

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Whatever, I'm sure he does not need anyones support in any forum disagreement.

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 15-08-2016

Yeppers,Â thanx Aloy. The respect is mutual Smile

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BTW, Nothing wrong with my "independence".. and I mean that in the nicest possible way Tongue

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Kevin Rudd's UN bid had more support than the government claimed

Federal cabinet was marginally in favour of nominating Kevin Rudd as a candidate for United Nations Secretary-General until Malcolm Turnbull and Barnaby Joyce had their say and overruled it, sources have revealed.

As the ramifications of the Rudd rejection continue to reverberate within government, it is also understood that Foreign Minister Julie Bishop, who was pushing the Rudd bid, was never made aware that Mr Turnbull had phoned Mr Rudd in May and told him to drop his bid because it would not be supported.

On Friday last week, Mr Turnbull announced the government would not be nominating the former Labor prime minister as a candidate to replace Ban Ki-moon on the basis he was unsuited for the role. The decision followed a protracted and heated cabinet discussion on Thursday after which the impression was created that a majority were against Mr Rudd.

But insiders have told The Australian Financial Review that by the end of the meeting when everybody had had their say, one more minister had spoken for Mr Rudd than had spoken against. Mr Turnbull and Mr Joyce, the Nationals leader, then had a meeting and decided to veto the proposal and crush Mr Rudd's international aspirations.

Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/politics/kevin-rudds-un-bid-had-more-support-than-the-government-claimed-20160731-gqhyq5#ixzz4HNdSh0wh

Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook

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So that's more than half the cabinet supporting the nomination. AndÂ we know Labor supported it. That's more than half the parliament.

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Err, Chinese?
[Image: chopsticks.jpg]

Well Done Conservatives - POWERZONE - 16-08-2016

Just to be clear on this... I'm not necessarily supporting the appointment of KR, just the nomination.

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Personally, I think Helen Clark would do a better job.

Well Done Conservatives - Aloysius - 16-08-2016

Heh Heh nice differentiation there PZ!!

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I agree with you - while no big fan of Helen Clark at all - she would still be far preferable to KR - in a diplomatic role.

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One notes with interest that the (conservative) NZ government supports her candidature - she was a several term NZ Labour Party PM.

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I reckon the point is moot - although Ms Clark is a woman and therefore more electable than KR (at this time) - the role will most likely go to a central European female - apparently it's their turn!!